To the Mentors

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[Groundfire]

This is a think tank that will be used to discuss a better way for dedicated community members to help integrate new players into EIRR better without it being so taxing on the mentors and others in the teaching process.

What can we do for you to help the process?

Is there something that can be coded into the launcher?

Better guides? Is there a way we can automate the system and focus mentor's energies on teaching them how to play instead of "getting them started?"

Also, what kind of benefits could be provided by the devs to make mentoring fun for you? Reward units? Warmap beta slots? special accounts so you can play with noobs and not be outgunned?

Ill be watching and taking down notes.

Personally, I think that simple "tool tip" type pop boxes that are run on all launcher screens until you actively turn them off would be a good start. The information is presented at load up, simple, to the point, would ease the starting process with some easy coy creation tips and explanation of the mechanics.

Discuss.

[lionel23]

Mentoring needs some sort of 'reroll' buff at least to the newbie and to the mentor.  Because you will be down on skill for one team and the other team will most likely stomp/roll over you.  Now I don't mind noobs on my team, but when your entire company is vetted and you sunk precious PP and stuff into your company, it is just a little frustrating to be punished with losing things in your company, losing the game, all the while trying to teach someone new at the game.  While one could make another noob company to help the noob, it would further hurt the noob and his team, and the constant losses he'll receive like two Lvl 1s against two lvl 9s, etc.

I would vere away from 'special accounts' as there is still an issue currently regarding that and in the past, and would prefer to use what's already in the system, mainly the launcher where you get the noob advantages. This 'mentor' advantage can be added there, maybe give additional time off for the noob team for call-ins, higher rerolls like 80-90% chance to keep units alive so the noob doesn't feel punished losing guys so hard and the mentor isn't getting the floor wiped with his company.

[Groundfire]

Playing with noobs on your team is not the same as mentoring. Im talking about actually instructing and playing co-pilot for a game.

You shouldnt get vet protection for your main and still be allowed to go into any game and kill other people's vet for the sake of (maybe, and i use the term loosely) teaching a new guy how to play. For one thing, having your own vet or even being allowed to accumulate vet will distract from instructing in the first place.

The problem with past test accounts was that they were being created on a whim on smurfs no less with almost no knowledge from the opposing team.

If we gave specific Mentor accounts, designated them as mentor accounts in the launcher with a public list for everyone to see, then everyone will know what they are getting into and that there is mentoring in process.

Something like "[MentorAccount] Lionel23" would be displayed in launcher. You would have access to all doctrine abilities and resources to make the game "comfortable" for you. No vet will be gained on the company to discourage use outside of mentoring sessions. The trade off is that you have 1 account that you can use to sandbox builds and try new T4s before anyone else. It's something we can track and that's what makes it allowable. No smurfs.

Sounds like a good compromise to me for starters.

[lionel23]

Ahh that's good, yeah a mentor account, designated as such, but not being handicapped at something that isn't comfortable to the mentor, that sounds like a good compromise.  Given that, then I give the Lionel seal of approval.

This thread endorsed and approved by the RNC - the Ranger National Committee!

[Artekas]

The idea of a mentor account with no vet or wins/losses seems perfect to me. There's going to be a grindless system implemented anyways, so it could be kept at the same pace as the faction without you having to grind on a second account for abilities (since there is no grind). Although unlocking t4s for them before everyone else might be a reward for them and would compensate for playing with a newb, I can see that big in-game advantage being abused.

[Killer344]

I can already foresee the endless threads about idiots QQing about giving free accounts to them when we get to it like the last time.... oh well.

[Spartan_Marine88]

I can already foresee the endless threads about idiots QQing about giving free accounts to them when we get to it like the last time.... oh well.

Need to find a way to track them actually using thier accounts to help out noobs, and if they don't reach a certain quota the account gets locked/deleted. (granted it would have to take into account the amount of new people being on, so not sure if this would be possible)

[Artekas]

A quota would be absolutely and totally retarded.

[Killer344]

I'm all up for giving free accounts, but past proves it's bound to fail no matter what, people will QQ about it; you could even say they already started lol.

[Groundfire]

This will be different. For one thing, the intent will be different. Mentor accounts will be for teaching, unlike test accounts that were specifically designed to find breaks in the old doctrines, with rather good players at the wheel. 3/4 of the people with access to those accounts are very good players.

Now how do you tell a dev, the people with the SQL capable of company creation that he is not allowed to make and use buffed companies? Who watched the watchers, in a sense.

No, i think it will be fine and manageable if we left the buffed accounts to community members and the devs supervised use.

[sheffer]

Need to find a way to track them actually using thier accounts to help out noobs

So all what u need are special noob accounts like "[Newbie] Sheffer" 

[Artekas]

People whining about something does not mean it's failed, people whine about everything.

[Killer344]

yah, but the last time got out of control... when that happens you either roll back the changes or start banning them.... me thinks we should do the later this time if that happens again .

[TheWindCriesMary]

Tooltips would be great.

Improved guides would also be great. Right now too many new players skip the guides altogether which is a bit annoying at times.

Also, a really good idea I came up with is that new players have the choice of getting a "pre-made" company when they choose their doctrine. We could make one for every doctrine, and that way they won't have to go through the hardest part of learning how to play EiR: making a good company to play games with.

 The most tedious part of mentoring is doing a step by step talkthrough of company construction, and on many occasions its just easier to get their login information and go into the launcher and build it yourself.

 This way they would get a full and battle-ready company from the get go, and would be able to reverse engineer how to build it responsibly after playing a few games (the key would be to make it auto restore or to have a button that replaces losses).


 THis, more than anything else, would be the single most noob-friendly feature EiR could have.

-Wind

[Groundfire]

I like that suggestion wind.

P.S. Mentor accnts. is just an idea were throwing around. All this stuff needs to be thrown past the big man for approval if we are going to use it.

[spinn72]

I know this might sound weird, but it's how I learnt how to play EIR. It presumes that you know enough about vCoH, as i'm sure all players to EIR do.

I used to watch my brother, spinn72, play the game, and while he was playing he'd sit there and explain why he'd have a Churchill and Captain in the same call-in, and why it was appropriate at certain situations, he'd explain his company composition to me as he was playing a game as well as explain his predicted upcoming responses from enemies (eg, if he just defeated 2 American atg's with a croc, he'd expect an m10 or something along those lines, so he'd bring on an atg to counter and so on).

It seems that a lot of the newbies that we have joining EIRR are actively making an effort to read all the information posted on the launcher news screen, which is good. What I am suggesting is perhaps a replay of a balancedish 2v2 with a shoutcast that uses slow motion and even stops at critical points to explain and justify tactical decisions used. Key points need to be raised, such as becoming aware of your teammates AT/AI, a relatively slight assumption of what the enemy is fielding and how to counter, when to call in (keeping max pop on the field at all times) and what might be coming (eg, if you see storms, you know one is blitz, so you can expect more + a tiger, bring on bike etc)

All good EIRR players have this knowledge obtained from numerous games of experience, giving them a chance to see just how important little decisions are, such as callin sizes and the ability to keep a tally of what the enemy has called on (eg. if you know that they can't physically call on any more tanks due to the lack of fuel in their company composition) will assist in the learning process and give new players a benchmark of what to expect, as often we see a lot of players run away due to losing large amounts of games and feeling demoralized by the whole event (Not including stomps, which are inevitable).

Also, I know this may be hard to code, but maybe the ability to oversee a newbies company creation screen would be fantastic in the launcher. Say you're on vent with a noobie, and you want to see how they've constructed their company, you may get the chance to log in as a mentor via a mentor account, type in the players name and be able to see the launcher through their eyes without being able to change anything except for what is on the company screen. You can critically analyse the pro's and con's, make suggestions and try to give the new player a decent company. This will avoid new players who have 5 rifle callins, 2 croc callins etc etc.

^ The same effect could also be created via putting a dummy company creation screen online, such as this - http://d2items.com/skills.php . Once again, would require a lot of work, but doesn't have to be done by someone from the EIRR dev or mod team, this could be done by anyone with a basic knowledge of whatever coding is needed. The ability to go through this with a new player would be sweet.

All of this helps in an attempt to 'skip' the main parts of the learning curve. The first option I have presented does not require direct contact with a newbie, though it will take time for a Shoutcaster to find the right replay, maybe even require a set up match with level 5 accounts. The second alternative is a more typical one on one mentor approach, but as Wind has specified, this is one of the biggest issue with new players.

- Enkk

[rifle87654]

Can you make a complete EiR basic tactics?
About how to run a doctrine.
Like:
Blitzkrieg
playstyle 1 heavy tanks
doctrine selections...
company examples...
playstyle 2 storms
doctrine selections...
company examples...

[FireflyDivision]

^ company examples are exactly what new EIRR players want.

[Nevyen]

I know this might sound weird, but it's how I learnt how to play EIR. It presumes that you know enough about vCoH, as i'm sure all players to EIR do.

I used to watch my brother, spinn72, play the game, and while he was playing he'd sit there and explain why he'd have a Churchill and Captain in the same call-in, and why it was appropriate at certain situations, he'd explain his company composition to me as he was playing a game as well as explain his predicted upcoming responses from enemies (eg, if he just defeated 2 American atg's with a croc, he'd expect an m10 or something along those lines, so he'd bring on an atg to counter and so on).

It seems that a lot of the newbies that we have joining EIRR are actively making an effort to read all the information posted on the launcher news screen, which is good. What I am suggesting is perhaps a replay of a balancedish 2v2 with a shoutcast that uses slow motion and even stops at critical points to explain and justify tactical decisions used. Key points need to be raised, such as becoming aware of your teammates AT/AI, a relatively slight assumption of what the enemy is fielding and how to counter, when to call in (keeping max pop on the field at all times) and what might be coming (eg, if you see storms, you know one is blitz, so you can expect more + a tiger, bring on bike etc)

All good EIRR players have this knowledge obtained from numerous games of experience, giving them a chance to see just how important little decisions are, such as callin sizes and the ability to keep a tally of what the enemy has called on (eg. if you know that they can't physically call on any more tanks due to the lack of fuel in their company composition) will assist in the learning process and give new players a benchmark of what to expect, as often we see a lot of players run away due to losing large amounts of games and feeling demoralized by the whole event (Not including stomps, which are inevitable).

Also, I know this may be hard to code, but maybe the ability to oversee a newbies company creation screen would be fantastic in the launcher. Say you're on vent with a noobie, and you want to see how they've constructed their company, you may get the chance to log in as a mentor via a mentor account, type in the players name and be able to see the launcher through their eyes without being able to change anything except for what is on the company screen. You can critically analyse the pro's and con's, make suggestions and try to give the new player a decent company. This will avoid new players who have 5 rifle callins, 2 croc callins etc etc.

^ The same effect could also be created via putting a dummy company creation screen online, such as this - http://d2items.com/skills.php . Once again, would require a lot of work, but doesn't have to be done by someone from the EIRR dev or mod team, this could be done by anyone with a basic knowledge of whatever coding is needed. The ability to go through this with a new player would be sweet.

All of this helps in an attempt to 'skip' the main parts of the learning curve. The first option I have presented does not require direct contact with a newbie, though it will take time for a Shoutcaster to find the right replay, maybe even require a set up match with level 5 accounts. The second alternative is a more typical one on one mentor approach, but as Wind has specified, this is one of the biggest issue with new players.

- Enkk

This is a really good idea and I would suggest people like Smokaz Brn and Bob be the people who put it together with Groundfire as the producer of it.

[Scotzmen]

company examples are exactly what new EIRR players want.

Yes they most defintly are, first time i came back after a year is try to find company exaplmes but there wasnt any!