[CW] Stuart

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[smurfORnot]

and they are similiar how?

[AmPM]

lol, exactly, they are completely different weapons systems.

Here is the info for the M2 Canister shot fired by the 37mm:
Canister   Model:Canister M2; Weight Round/Proj:1.58 / 0.88; Payload: 122 steel balls; Velocity  762 / 752.

To give you an idea of the size of the weapon we are talking about...


And here is the muzzle of a 120mm cannon next to a guys head while he sights it


This is like comparing the round fired from a 16" Naval gun to a PaK 40....

[Mysthalin]

I think Firesparks was just arguing the notion that "Shotgun Blasts are absolute shit at anything beyond point blank".

The Abraams one clearly isn't.

Should the Stuart act as if it's an Abraams one? Different question.

[VERTIGGO]

Canister shot dates way back, it functions just like a shotgun firing shot.

This is exactly right. I think there's some confusion here... canister was initially a bag of musket balls fired from smoothbore guns a la Napoleon's artillery. The trouble is the shot is concentrated when leaving the barrel so is ineffective at point blank range. As the shot spreads it becomes more effective to organized unites, and then at a certain point (maybe a few 100 yds) the shot slows down. Also, much of the shot will sail too high to hit anything aimed at, and much will impact into the ground. If you visualize it as a cone, you can see how it has a specific range that is optimal for getting the most rounds on target, and it's neither better to be farther nor closer than that.

And, to address Mysthalin's comment, yes it should be effective at reasonable ranges, it's really up to the community (or devs really) whether the Stuart's range in EIRR represents the max range anyone would bother using canister, or if it represents the maximum optimal range, in which case the closer shots would have a penalty... I have a feeling the former is more in tune with our game.

[Firesparks]

we can just make the canister shot an alternate fire mode for the stuart.

Nerf it down(severely) and just make the player switch fire mode whenever he has to fire infantry (canister) or vehicle (normal)

[VERTIGGO]

As for what should a 37mm Canister shot do in EIR? I dunno, why does my MG42 firing 1200 RPM not kill infantry instantly? After all, it should be just as dangerous as the canister as far as killing power goes, and at longer ranges.

That's actually a brilliant concept. Rather than a one-off "grief any vet squad" button, why can't the stuart fire canister any time it engages infantry, the damage be dealt to all infantry in the cone, and tweaked to balance like a t17, staghound, puma, etc.

This way the vehicle would have a function beyond being completely frustrating to the enemy once or twice and then being nearly useless after that... (as far as anti-inf functionality of course)

[LeoPhone]

canister -> less damage at long range so it only gibs inf at close range.
make it pin to compensate
and almost no dmg vs inf in buildings and cover to counter. done.

[VERTIGGO]

I don't know, even the grease gun does damage to units in buildings, albeit at a much slower rate... However, we're talking about a pretty massive amount of firepower here.

[AmPM]

Again, we are talking about similar firepower to an HMG. We are not talking about a massive cannon.

Its a 37mm, firing canister. In most cases you were better off using HE shells.

As a side note. Is there any way we can get multiple ammo types for all tanks? Using a Toggle and having it take as long as a normal reload would?

TBH, the Stuart is fine even without Canister; it's just icing on the cake.

[RoyalHants]

COuld be made into a cheap anti blob machine modiifres vs blobs

[VERTIGGO]

Multiple ammo types is nice, but I hate the manual toggles, in my opinion it really just results in more frustration and more **** to micro.

Doesn't CoH already use automatic ammo types depending on target for some units? I thought tanks like the tiger had an anti infantry stat and an anti-vehicle one. I've never seen a tiger miss a pershing and gib an infantry squad by mistake

[DarkSoldierX]

Stuart is fine but canister is not. Instagibbing vet 2 squads just aint cool yo. All my persistency go down the drain when against those canister shots.

[Tymathee]

and firesparks is one of our main rgd coders? scary...

i say leave stuart the way it is and change the close range accuracy of the canister round.

the way i see it, at close range it should instant gib one guy but no one else really gets hurt.
Medium range it does really good damage to the majority of the squad
long range it tickles the whole squad for like 25% of max dmg.

so say its a 5 man volk squad
Close - 100% 1 man
Medium - 75% 3 men 50% 2 men
Long - 25% 5 men.

[Unkn0wn]

Thread cleaned, anything not relating to the Stuart and/or its cannister shot has been removed.
Stay on topic.

[Grundwaffe]

I never used the canisters so i cant rate them but i do use stuarts however, can't really complain about it..
Kills infantry like a charm *stacked*

[Spartan_Marine88]

The dual stuart plus a cct is real nasty tbh