[AM] Calliope

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[Illegal_Carrot]

So BD was right.

[nugnugx]

So BD was right.

no he is not, callie is not the best arty

[kwiatekkek]

it  used to be tho.
wit its borked vet 2 main gun +10 range

now when its  fixed its just  meh....

[Illegal_Carrot]

no he is not, callie is not the best arty

BD said that the Calli has Sherman armor, and that in his opinion the Calli was the best arty piece in the game. He's right on both accounts, as an opinion can never be wrong.

Even still, Tym was only referring to the fact that the Calli has Sherman armor.

[smurfORnot]

as an opinion can never be wrong.

so Hitler's opinion that jews,gypsys and so on should be exterminated was not wrong? lol

[AmPM]

Only if you believe your version of morality as the only possible set of values available.

[Demon767]

Only if you believe your version of morality as the only possible set of values available.

haha i like this guy

[NightRain]

Lets see.

Calliope has the Sherman armor- which means that any unit that engages it will have harder time destroying it than they have vs any other arty piece. Sherman health allows the thing to take some beating too.

Calliope is a tier 2 unlock: Now to compare this to most other Arty pieces (Excluding nebelwerfer and 25Pdr) it is the cheapest tier unlock arty

Calliope is faster than Hummel and Priest. On top of it it can get Smoke to escape it and eventually has the ability to gain its maingun for extra defence. Only the Priest has a MG on it but it has pretty much very little use.

Calliope shoots a entire area with smaller rockets that penetrate tanks effectively and sprays the whole territory which means it definantly has a chance to damage everything within the area. Unlike Priest and Hummel that rely on the target being completely immobile. If the targets start to move during or before the barrage commences there is a huge chance that the said unit can dodge the artillery barrage. With the spraying you are ensured to damage it if not kill it.

For all these reasons above the Calliope has the highest cost resource and support pool wise.  Lets summarize it: It is mobile, it has good armor and health, it can get a good gun in it. It can also pop smoke. What do I miss? Only the negative part of -5% chance of getting engine dmg is a small price to pay for this piece of artillery.

*MORE ADDED*

To balance the way of the artillery, I recommend bringing ALL Artillery prices up.

Immobile Arty and Mobile arty's difference is so huge. One mobile arty costs twice the ammount of a immobile one which I find silly. They should be brought in line that mobile arty is more expensive than it BUT not twice the ammount of cost. Increasing all arty cost with around 80-100 fuel and some manpower would bring all arty in line with mobile ones. Calliope of course remains as the best piece so it shouldn't get any price increases. Perhaps a slight resource decrease OR pool decrease. I recommend pool decrease.

And when I meant artillery, I didn't mean arty pieces that fire rockets. Only the arty that fires real shells that boom instead of piff and burn

[brn4meplz]

The Calliope may have Sherman armour but it has Truck criticals. Most Axis weapons that can damage tanks(grenades included) to alot of damage to the Calliope. Not only that but alot of axis weapons can score a Engine damaged from Full Health on the Calliope.

It is silly that most Mobile artillery is exceedingly more expensive then stationary. The defense about it being mobile is mostly irrelevant given how vulnerable it is. That being said Mobile Artillery typically does have a longer longevity on the battlefiled given the prevelance of Offmaps.

Boosting the price of Stationary Artillery hurts it's value quite heavily(most Offmaps can kill or decrew a Howitzer) while lowering the cost of mobile Artillery make it more numerous. We'd have to jump the PP value significantly just to reducel the amount of them.

[NightRain]

Boosting the price of Stationary Artillery hurts it's value quite heavily(most Offmaps can kill or decrew a Howitzer) while lowering the cost of mobile Artillery make it more numerous. We'd have to jump the PP value significantly just to reducel the amount of them.

Minor Price increase should be in order. Mobile vs Immobile arty has huge price difference. Why buy one Mobile artillery when you can buy two immobile ones in case the first one gets nuked by a offmap?

[Firesparks]

priest and hummel are literally just 105mm on wheels. The mobility is a plus but arguably extras you don't really need if you're good with using sighting to maximize your accuracy with the immobile piece. Some people park their priest/hummel close to the front line so the shell are more accurate and there's less time to dodge.

On the other hand the hummel with incendiary are deadly.

Minor Price increase should be in order. Mobile vs Immobile arty has huge price difference. Why buy one Mobile artillery when you can buy two immobile ones in case the first one gets nuked by a offmap?

unless the 105mm and the 25 pdr are actually overpowered by themselves, we shouldn't forcable raise their price just to make the priest and hummel more attractive.

[Tymathee]

I've always felt the Hummel should be cheaper but that also means you gotta nerf the incin barrage ffs. normal hummel barrage = 4 shots, incin = 6.

What if we do just 2? the spread is so huge, 2 would be enough, heck one could be enough tbh but i think 2 is really good and makes it effective yet wont make it OP as it is now.

btw, i want incin callie that'd be awesome, axis keep getting more fire, allies need some goodies.  maybe larger aoe.

[brn4meplz]

Naw Calliope needs Airbusrt Canister shot

[Tymathee]

Naw Calliope needs Airbusrt Canister shot

that could actually look pretty cool with all those rockets being fired.

[pqumsieh]

Just have a few more thoughts to add to this discussion. We have an argument being presented that Cali's are tougher to kill than other mobile artillery pieces simply because of its armor. While its armor does make it significantly more likely to survive an attack, its low range makes it significantly more likely to be attacked.

Consider this analogy; a gun does 10 damage per shot but fires only once per minute, a second gun does 5 damage per shot but fires twice per minute; is there a different in the amount of damage each gun can do per minute? (Both guns always deal their damage) The answer is no.

That said, yes the Cali has tougher armor, but it also has a reduced range which makes it far more vulnerable than a priest or Hummel who can fire from spawn.

I have used the Hummel and Cali extensively, so I have a good idea of how both work specially in regards to cost effectiveness. There is no doubt in my mind that the Cali is the least cost effective artillery piece in the game.

However, one strong point was made throughout this thread; unlike Priests and Hummel’s the Cali is a T2 unlock. Granted the fact that a T2 ought to be less powerful than a T3, I recommend switching the Cali with "Calling it in" making the Cali a T3 and the latter a T2. Why? First and foremost, have you ever tried to build a company with a Cali and Pershing? The two alone would bring you down over 1000 fuel. In my mind, when building an armor company you make a decision as to whether you prefer a Cali or Pershing, but not both. Hence, make it a T3 along side the Pershing but optimize it so it is a cost effective unit.

Things that can be done: Maintain cost but tweak stats; reduce cost, maintain stats; rework entire unit concept.

Final notes; doctrine unlocks ought to be irrelevant within this discussion. Citing a reference for this statement, when we discussed potential changes to the P4 IST we disregarded doctrine unlocks because it was the basic unit itself in need of work. Same idea applies to the Cali, it should not require a T4 unlock to make it cost effective, that is the bottom line.

PQ

[PonySlaystation]

The callie is not supposed to be that powerful. When the callie first got the ability use it's main gun (a few patches back) it was way too powerful. There is a reason why they nerfed it after that and it's not really underpowered now. With the T4 it's still an effective artillery and infantry support tank.

[pqumsieh]

as you said, with the T4 its an effective artillery and infatnry support tank. It shouldn't require a T4 tbh.

PQ

[Spartan_Marine88]

The callie is not supposed to be that powerful. When the callie first got the ability use it's main gun (a few patches back) it was way too powerful.

Before you keep on with that, it was way too powerful because of a bug that gave the main gun +10 range.

Not to mention the callie can't really run away from anything due to its high chance for engine damage

Also as said before, its the only arty piece that needs to be frontlined to be effective.

[AmPM]

I don't ever see a Calli on the front line unless you break through to it.

They are always behind a line of units, if not two lines.

Stuka's have the same range, and are much more delicate.

[PonySlaystation]

You bring up a valid point.
The engine damage thing is kinda silly, no other tanks are that much of a gamble.