Tripple Nerfs - The Churchill Croc

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[TheWindCriesMary]

Listen up looney toons, especially you woefully underqualified troglodytes in the secret balance advisors forum.

The Churchill croc has gone up 70mp, 60 fuel, and 1 pop.

You know this already.

Be ashamed of yourselves for this knee-jerk, whine-fest reactionary response.

This is a classic example of how secret whisperings in high powered ears from an out of touch and unrealistic shadow council can put too much power in the wrong hands.

Shame on you all.

Down with the clown council! People who are actually good players should be the exclusive members of all balance discussions, not sappy yes men who toe the line and don't have a clue what objectivity, impartiality, and jurisprudence mean.

Shame!

Moderated, controlled, and gradual nerfs are the stuff of proper balance. Not gleeful sabotage of opposing armies not currently in favour of the nearsighted buffoons.

Woe be upon reason, for it has suffered a tremendous blow at the hands of these villainous usurpers.

-Wind

[panzerman]

so if churchil was not OP

what is in your eyes wind?

[TheWindCriesMary]

so if churchil was not OP

what is in your eyes wind?

Read the post properly before commenting you scandalous scallywag!

"Moderated, controlled, and gradual nerfs are the stuff of proper balance."

Reading a thread and making up your own interpretation (Ie. that someone is saying the Croc didn't need ANY buffs) is strictly forbidden. You are banned from existence in this world. You're life is forfeit.

-Wind

[EIRRMod]

"Moderated, controlled, and gradual nerfs are the stuff of proper balance."

So, multiple small nerfs instead of one?  *shrug*

If its too much, we'll reduce it again, but a smaller amount - sort of like when people play 'guess a number between 1 and 100' - you would be retarded to choose 90 OR 10, even if that was close to the number.

If that makes sense.

[spinn72]

Shame on you for using them well, Wind.
Shame on you!

[Tymathee]

you're only 3 weeks late noticing this...

[TheWindCriesMary]

So, multiple small nerfs instead of one?  *shrug*

If its too much, we'll reduce it again, but a smaller amount - sort of like when people play 'guess a number between 1 and 100' - you would be retarded to choose 90 OR 10, even if that was close to the number.

If that makes sense.

You don't adjust a scale by sliding the weight from one extreme to another. You do it gradually and carefully. You move the weight up a few ounces, see how it works out, and then if need by you slide it up a bit more. You don't throw on 5 pounds, and then work down from there.

Throwing it around like some kind of shockput just exasperates the issue.

All patient, objective balancing and jurisprudence gets thrown out the window when unqualified lobbyists get access to the secret balance forum without any kind of checks and balances system.

Proper intelligent balance discussions should be a practice of restraint and moderation, otherwise it's just a shamwow extravaganza.

-Wind

[Firesparks]

The royal engineer doctrine is not even in yet. We will probably end up changing the price or pop again.

[TheWindCriesMary]

you're only 3 weeks late noticing this...

You may well be right sir!

I came back after a hiatus and played a game with my Wehr army and then my brit one. I lost some crocs in the second game, and when I went to replace it I found I could no longer come anywhere close to having the same force! What treachery!

It seems while I was away the most effective counter to a well-built army ever devised was cleverly used: the classic shadow balance advisor forum manipulation strategy KO punch known as the tripple nerf.

This strategy is especially effective because you don't have to be a good player to use it, and you don't have to worry about anyone calling you out on biased shenanigans. Also, it is far easier than having to change your force composition to incorporate proper counters as a good player/wise tactician would.

Why adapt to fight something properly when you can get it wtfnerfpwned instead? It's smarter that way!

All hail the balance advisor circus!

-Wind

[brn4meplz]

Someone touched my precious Churchills! ack. Given certain players and enough time most any unit can seem woefully cheap. Just the Churchill fitting itself back into the balance cycle again. I wouldn't be too concerned about it's price bouncing around

[Malgoroth]

So how many crocs can you fit on your army now?

[EIRRMod]

You don't adjust a scale by sliding the weight from one extreme to another. You do it gradually and carefully. You move the weight up a few ounces, see how it works out, and then if need by you slide it up a bit more. You don't throw on 5 pounds, and then work down from there.

Throwing it around like some kind of shockput just exasperates the issue.

All patient, objective balancing and jurisprudence gets thrown out the window when unqualified lobbyists get access to the secret balance forum without any kind of checks and balances system.

Proper intelligent balance discussions should be a practice of restraint and moderation, otherwise it's just a shamwow extravaganza.

-Wind

In otherwords, you would choose 10.

We chose 50.

[Firesparks]

things changed since you've been gone. This isn't the same meta game as the old doctrine line up. If you base your opinion of a price change base on one instance who's having the knee jerk reaction?

In any case we will probably end up fine tuning the price of the croc when the royal engineer doctrine is in the game and all the (inevitable) bonus got squared out.

[panzerman]

So how many crocs can you fit on your army now?

he still has atleast 3 i think...

[Malgoroth]

3 crocs... how is that not enough?

[panzerman]

u need to be able to spam enough to counter the hordes of volks i guess lol

[TheWindCriesMary]

In otherwords, you would choose 10.

We chose 50.

No I wouldn't, because that analogy isn't even remotely applicable.

Balance isn't about a guessing game between 1 and 100. Because that is an absolute wherein there are 99 wrong answers and 1 correct one.

Balance on the other hand is about equillibrium. If something seems disproportionate you gradually adjust it, monitoring each change over a period of time to make sure nothing gets overdone. You start small because it's way easier to go bigger than it is to backtrack after the fact. Otherwise you make more work for yourself (by having to undo what has been done rather than just adjusting responsibly) and you confuse the batshit out of players. Not to mention frustrate them.

So how many crocs can you fit on your army now?

You can fit 3. Whiners and incompetent players all over the world are rejoicing, and none of them use Churchill crocs in their army. See a problem with that scenario?

You can't put the henhouse under the supervision of foxes.

things changed since you've been gone. This isn't the same meta game as the old doctrine line up. If you base your opinion of a price change base on one instance who's having the knee jerk reaction?

In any case we will probably end up fine tuning the price of the croc when the royal engineer doctrine is in the game and all the (inevitable) bonus got squared out.

I wasn't away since any change in the meta game Firesparks. It's still the same, which is what makes this croc nerf so hilariously baffling. Until decent players with a half-decent grasp on objectivity are the ones whispering in the ears of the balance devs, stupid missteps like this are going to keep happening.

The only safe armies and doctrines are the popular ones.

-Wind

[TheWindCriesMary]

Also keep in mind you mangy cats: I play all four armies in the mod.

With that being said, what kind of sense does it make to nerf an army that has no doctrine abilities and is playing against rank 9's with all kinds of tasty treats?

God forbid a guy using RE with only Churchill crocs as a doctrine bonus gets them at a decent price against t4 fully decked out companies?

SAY IT AINT SO SCOTTY! WE BETTER TRIPPLE NERF THAT ASAP!

-Wind

Ps. Look at all those vet 3 churchill crocs on the leaderboards. Thank god someone put a stop to the spam now!

[brn4meplz]

Still fits 3 and depending on advantages a few odds and ends vehicles. Given responsible play you can still roast upwards of 100 enemy infantry on that.

Like I said it'll bounce around(it was pretty cheap before-I ran 4 and only ever used 2 [3 in tough games])

Could be OMG stupid, they had it at 720 for a while.


It'll get it's doctrine eventually. I play all 4 also and RE has consistently been one of the top doctrines

[TheWindCriesMary]

Still fits 3 and depending on advantages a few odds and ends vehicles. Given responsible play you can still roast upwards of 100 enemy infantry on that.

Like I said it'll bounce around(it was pretty cheap before-I ran 4 and only ever used 2 [3 in tough games])

Could be OMG stupid, they had it at 720 for a while.


It'll get it's doctrine eventually. I play all 4 also and RE has consistently been one of the top doctrines

The fact that it has no doctrine right now makes it a completely nonsensical candidate for tripple nerfing. If a player is crazy enough to play against fully decked out rank 9 companies with full doctrines with just crocs as a doctrine bonus, then it's irresponsible, illogical, and nonsensical to also limit them to an absurd 3.

Also you're not really a good case study of any units or army in general - especially as it applies to optimum balance in the highest level of play. Balancing on the dichotomy between your actual abillities and your perception of your abilities is a recipe for disaster.

-Wind