PE Infantry Rework

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[Unkn0wn]

Hey guys,

Just a heads up on one of the 'major' things that will be happening with the upcoming patch (Hoping to release sometime around the weekend).

After a long and fruitful internal discussion on the role and survivability of PE infantry vis à vis other factions' mainline infantry, we've come to a unanimous decision (Yes that means everyone, with all balance team members present FYI) to rework the PE infantry to the following

* PE panzer grenadier and PG variants (AG and TB)
HP raise to 80, changed armor type to infantry.
Now require 5 pop.
* PE TB to 240 MP (From 215)
* PE AG to 240 MP, 120 Mun

What this means is basically that PE's mainline infantry will now be on par with WM Grenadiers in terms of survivability. This will, we believe, better enable PE infantry to compete with other faction's infantry and better represent their role as an 'elite' fighting force.

Keep in mind it's not all 'buff' though, the armour change for example will actually mean that BARs will do better against them. In addition, their damage output remains unchanged, far below that of a standard WM grenadier (approximately 40% worse).

In regards to the pop change, this is something that actually should have happened a long time ago. PE infantry were the only 'mainline' infantry in the game that were 4 pop... The goal is to bring PE infantry in line with other faction's infantry in terms of field composition. It's important to note here that population never directly represents a unit's performance. (Both volks and grenadiers both have 5 pop for example)

Lastly, in a later patch (likely with the vet rework), we will also be reworking Veteran Sergeant and turn it into the 'sprint' upgrade. PE infantry will have to pay an additional MP sum for the Sprint addition. This means that they will no longer get sprint with veterancy.

Regards

P.S Next path will hopefully also bring a large portion of the TH doctrine.

[NightRain]

Will there be a alternative form of infantry like Wehrmacht Volksgrenadiers?

Or will there just be grenadiers for Panzer Elite?

[TheIcelandicManiac]

, we will also be reworking Veteran Sergeant and turn it into the 'sprint' upgrade. PE infantry will have to pay an additional MP sum for the Sprint addition. This means that they will no longer get sprint with veterancy.

what dose the vet sergante do?

[Unkn0wn]

Will there be a alternative form of infantry like Wehrmacht Volksgrenadiers?

Or will there just be grenadiers for Panzer Elite?

Well there's doctrinal alternatives like Luftwaffe Infantry and Panzerpioneers that take that role.

what dose the vet sergante do?

Currently it increases suppression resistance, but its effects are pretty marginal.

[NightRain]

What if each doc tree would get a 5 man infantry squad? Just for recrewing and other ideal stuff. Brits pay a bit extra but 5 man can recrew 2 things where as 4 men can only recrew 1 thing...

[AmPM]

With their low damage, how will this really help?

I mean, for instance, Grens > Rifles because of damage, squads have similar total health.

If Rifles deal more damage than PGrens, and have similar squad HP, won't they still be far better?

Also, with the pop change, will PE be able to viably use a the mix of required units? (Primary AT being 5-6 pop, and having no dual purpose vehicles to fill gaps in an efficient manner similar to the P4).

[Demon767]

wow, is this gonna affect flammen grens? this will make them beast

[Unkn0wn]

wow, is this gonna affect flammen grens? this will make them beast

No, they already have AB armour anyway.
The sprint would affect them I suppose though. (But that'll be costly)

[Demon767]

I mean there gonna recieve 80hp now. that'll make em pretty dam elite than

[kwiatekkek]

we sure  about this?

[Killer344]

yeah

[Demon767]

wow thats massive

[Killer344]

It's just a trade off? It'll make them better vs tank/nades/artillery/flame weapons and pretty much the same or worse vs small arm weapons.

[Demon767]

Talking about its affect on flammen grens

[kwiatekkek]

that'll  make pgrens   cost the  same  as wehr  grens mp/pop
 while  dealin roughly half the  dmg  the  wehr  grens  do.
 

[Firesparks]

wow, is this gonna affect flammen grens? this will make them beast

No, they already have AB armour anyway.
The sprint would affect them I suppose though. (But that'll be costly)

they actually have 80 hp + airborne since the doctrine rework.

the Panzer grenadier will still cost 215 mp, as it is right now. Only the cost of the AG and TB will be changed. With the mp44 upgrade the weaker kar on the PG are moot. While the schreck is the main draw for TB anyway.

[nugnugx]

Why change something that is working fine ?  I see no problem with current pgrens , aswell as others , no one complained about them being UP, they do their price.

also

PE infantry were the only 'mainline' infantry in the game that were 4 pop

Piat sappers are also 4 pop



Imo now they will be broken, like kwia said, they will have wehr grens hp but not the damage, so they will not be able to take on rifles, but they will cost the same pop wise.
If you want to buff them without damage it should be something noticable like 160hp so they have more survivability,  80hp is practicaly nothing.

[Demon767]

ah never noticed that

[Unkn0wn]

Piat sappers are also 4 pop

Well the sapper platform is 4 pop and sappers aren't mainline infantry really.
I suppose Piat sappers would fall in the 'mainline AT infantry' category though, and perhaps we should cnsider giving the piat upgrade +1 pop.  

Imo now they will be broken, like kwia said, they will have wehr grens hp but not the damage, so they will not be able to take on rifles, but they will cost the same pop wise.

This makes no sense, if they can take on rifles currently, why would they no longer be able to take on rifles after getting largely buffed...? (Exception here is mainly with BARs)

Also, you can't bring the pop arguement into this discussion, pop is largely irrelevant in relation to unit performance. Riflemen can't take on grenadiers, yet both are 5 pop.

If you want to buff them without damage it should be something noticable like 160hp so they have more survivability,  80hp is practicaly nothing.

I'm not entirely sure you realise that the increase to 80 will be quite significant.

that'll  make pgrens   cost the  same  as wehr  grens mp/pop

Like Firesparks said, no price increase on base panzergrenadiers.

Why change something that is working fine ?  I see no problem with current pgrens , aswell as others , no one complained about them being UP, they do their price.

It's a matter of perspective really, yes it's not something the majority of players were waiting on but it's something we feel is going to have a positive effect on gameplay. It also suits the PE design better if you think about it.

[Tymathee]

i've always felt piat sappers should be a different unit entirely so you can make the normal sapper into a truer engineering unit and.

i personally have no issue with this change and feel its long overdue. it was the only mainline infantry with 4 pop, and considering pz grens, assault grens, tb and flammens all were 4 pop, you could easily put a ton of infantry on the field and have way more support than needed to back it up so it was very easy as PE to overwhelm the enemy.

think of it this way. TB Gren + Assault Gren + Pz Gren with Mp44 upgrade I feel would beat 2 ranger squads, and they come out to the same pop and if fully upgraded (the rangers) nearly the same munis and mnp