[WEHR] Assault Ability

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[pqumsieh]

I have had some interesting experiences so far with the assault ability. It seems to me that when the enemy uses this ability they become extremely difficult to kill. Now, this is a 50-60 munition ability that breaks suppression and throws some extremely painful grenades; but on top of that it seems that when you try to kill the bloody squad they just either get super lucky rolls or have some sort of defensive buff.

In its current form, I feel they are a bit too cost effective. I have  been testing them myself in a couple of games and have found them to be really fun too use, but also a bit too easy. Even against experienced players, dodging these grenades can be difficult.

Overall, I find them to be a bit too cost effective and have literally put them on all of my volks for that very reason. A few of the top axis players have also decided to spam this ability and from what I seen and heard it has been a very successful tactic.

So my question to everyone else is as follows: (1) do you feel this is a very cost effective ability, (2) is it just me or do the units using the ability seem to get a very substancial defensive bonus, if so, should they?

PQ

[Spartan_Marine88]

(2) is it just me or do the units using the ability seem to get a very substancial defensive bonus, if so, should they?

PQ

Even though they get up and charge right through what would normally flatten them in seconds, and barely get scrateched, certain devs assure me that there is no defensive bonus

[Groundfire]

Even though they get up and charge right through what would normally flatten them in seconds, and barely get scrateched, certain devs assure me that there is no defensive bonus

*ahem*

Who spilled the beans? Out With it now!

[Spartan_Marine88]

*ahem*

Who spilled the beans? Out With it now!

tsk tsk, that would be telling

[chefarzt]

Tbh i got assault nades and it kills me more then my opponents coz the volks start freakin out doin stuff like chargin up close even if the target is in perfect range etc. And im pretty sure they die as fast as usual while doin this.

[Firesparks]

there's defensive bonus on assault ability. It's .5 rec accuracy and .75 rec damage. It's the same as the Vcoh ability. The defensive bonus is in incendiary assault for the SE as well.

[Groundfire]

there's defensive bonus on assault ability. It's .5 rec accuracy and .75 rec damage. It's the same as the Vcoh ability. The defensive bonus is in incendiary assault for the SE as well.

UHHHHHHaaaaaaa! I wanted to do it!



But yes, every squad that has assault has .5 recieved accuracy and .75 recieved dmg while using the ability. That is practically the best defensive bonus in the game.

Alotta devs giving out bad information lately... It's almost as if we dont know what were doing.

[pqumsieh]

That seems a bit excessive. Perhaps we should consider removing their defensive bonus as it seems to be the root of the problem, leading to effective spam of this T2 ability (T1 for PE).

If someone could take a T1 that gave them .5 rec accuracy and .75 rec damage I don't think anyone in their right mind would pass it up.

PQ

[spinn72]

Personally I think the ability is fine. Most players are competent enough to dodge it, and the Inc. Assault only works well on support weapons, even then, it can be dodged quite easily. How about instead of removing the defensive bonus, it gets nerfed a tiny bit (Maybe just the rec. acc part)?

[pqumsieh]

can you please explain in a bit more detail your argument spin? I personally see no reason a defensive buff should be applied. Its a T2 ability granting the most powerful defensive buff in the game...and dodging the attack is not always possible due to poor AI specifically with US infantry. It also stuns, so if one man lags behind the whole squad gets stunned providing time for the other grenades to finish the squad off. You cannot focus fire the squads down either due to the fact that they have such a strong buff.

Bottom line, we are seeing a great deal of Wehr Blitz players using this ability in large quantity signifying to me that something is wrong. When players all of a sudden do something like this it usually highlights its cost effectiveness and exploitability. We now know what the problem is; lets not act biased and try to balance this mod as it should be.

PQ

[chefarzt]

Reason guys using this is simply the amount of all forms of buffed inf spam combined with smoke etc.
Fix that and ull see less assault nades.

[Illegal_Carrot]

I have no trouble with Assault in terms of its offensive capabilities. I've always found it easy enough to counter, avoid or dodge.

Those defensive buffs are certainly a bit extreme, but they've always been there. I think .75/.75 would be good, and then tweak from there, not that it would matter much. Whatever squad uses it is as good as dead, and I don't think removing defensive buffs will keep them from getting the full Assault off.

[pqumsieh]

I still don't see a reason to keep the defensive buffs though. It seems out of place. No reason to combine an offensive ability with a defensive ability. Why not add a defensive ability to all grenade or assault like abilities? As I stated in an earlier post, it is not always practical to dodge this ability due to UI and pathing issues. Additionally, their low cost makes them idea for taking out support weapons or infantry blobs; the grenades also stun and do massive damage if they land taking out the opposing squad rather easily.

Bottom line, I have not heard a solid argument in support of maintaining the defensive buff.

PQ

EDIT: here is a case in point:
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=17904.msg313862;topicseen#new

He clearly identifies the cost effectiveness of the Assault ability; adding insult to injury with his combination of sprint and assault. Add in a huge defensive buff and you have a balance issue.

[Groundfire]

Assault mainly has this defensive buff because in order to utilize the ability you must relinquish all control of the caster squad while they run amongst god knows what to deliver their grenades. Losing control of your squad is enough risk in itself, let alone having them charge a gun line.

Players can easily isolate the target squad, send it to their spawn and have surrounding squads gun down the Assault squad if he pursues too far.

That being said, No matter how people may spin it, if Assault was a death wish regardless of what kind of defensive bonuses the squad got, then the ability would not be used. Players spam assault because it's very cost effective in certain builds. (although volk defensive grenades will get you to the same place for cheaper)

Assault only becomes bad with volk spam or when players arnt paying attention. Because of this, were going to try to find a different solution than by stripping the ability of it's defensive buffs and atm its still under discussion, I believe.

[Spartan_Marine88]

Assault only becomes bad with volk spam (use a tank) or when players arnt paying attention (i don't really think this is a good reason for a 'balance'). Because of this, were going to try to find a different solution than by stripping the ability of it's defensive buffs and atm its still under discussion, I believe.

[Groundfire]

Quote from: Groundfire on Today at 02:45:12 am

Assault only becomes bad with volk spam (use a tank) or when players arnt paying attention (i don't really think this is a good reason for a 'balance'). Because of this, were going to try to find a different solution than by stripping the ability of it's defensive buffs and atm its still under discussion, I believe.

Oh stop that, dont tell me how to deal with assault, I do it probably better than anyone here.

Wanna know how you dealt with assault in vCoH?

You retreated to your base.

Can you retreat out of the way of Assault in EIRR?

No.

Why should the ability be left at vCoH effectiveness?

Im just say'in

[Unkn0wn]

It's being looked at, but I wouldn't expect any 'major' changes at the moment.

[BigDick]

since it came up in this thread

incendiary assault is really bad

it does more damage to the squad itself than to the enemy (need to be fixed)

actually since this squads run through their own aoe incendiary  nades while you just run straight into one direction its a complete shit ability thats only working against people who sit somewhere not moving

[TheIcelandicManiac]

actually since this squads run through their own aoe incendiary  nades while you just run straight into one direction its a complete shit ability thats only working against people who sit somewhere not moving

is that not how you fight those things?
for you cant run away from the for everytime you go a sertain distance they trow some superhuman grenades so using sprint on ranger just becomes useless when they slowe down.

[BigDick]

yes and thats why they suck
other (wehr) assault is ok and imho balanced you don't kill yourself faster then the enemy and it can be dodged if you know what to do

wehr assault you just click to a map border in direction of your spawn and kill the following lemmings by some other units around
or hop into a building
it was really nasty in the past when it stunned and made movement impossible but now its dodgeable

incendiary assault you move straight away no need for an other unit or something because the following soldier armored grens kills them self more quick then they would killed you when you wouldnt move


i called assault nades blobcontrol because it only works if a player blobs and has to shit micro to just spread out his blob quick by selecting all single units in his blob or the one thats targeted