[WEHR] Assault Ability

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[TheIcelandicManiac]

well if you are having problomes just use the G43 with slow, works great.

[BigDick]

well if you are having problomes just use the G43 with slow, works great.

thats 2 squads with 115 munition and you can only slow one squad not the blob

and even then the slow moving squad kills the grens more fast because throwing grens get more damage from their own nades then the slowed squad they are fighting

the only way incendiary assault works is against some noobs who fear the fire and to loose some vet making them pressing retreat button instantly while yourself are sacrificing your squad to achieve that

[TheIcelandicManiac]

okey then, you control how you use your shit and how i use mine but if you are having problomes suppressing units use the scout car, it works great and sence it is on a mobile platform it is quite good.

but i mostly use IA against high munitions cost units.

[NightRain]

okey then, you control how you use your shit and how i use mine but if you are having problomes suppressing units use the scout car, it works great and sence it is on a mobile platform it is quite good.

but i mostly use IA against high munitions cost units.

Fighting against IA is easier than I expected. It is only annoying but if you force them to waste it on a useless squad you do good and come ontop of them costwise.

[Illegal_Carrot]

That being said, No matter how people may spin it, if Assault was a death wish regardless of what kind of defensive bonuses the squad got, then the ability would not be used.

Umm.. I hardly care if my Volks die, but they do die. Grens might lie if you use it rather defensively, but Volks charging through a gun line will die, often before the ability even finishes.

How do you keep a squad alive after you use Assault in vCoH?
Retreat back to base.
Can you retreat after using Assault in EiRR?
No.

Dodging an Assault isn't always possible, but can be easily done 4 out of 5 times. If the ability is only actually effective ones in a while, I say the trade off is reasonable.

[Mysthalin]

Assault doesn't stun lol.

[Firesparks]

Assault doesn't stun lol.

they still suppress

[chefarzt]

Its like the pre-tov assault = no stun but it actually kills.

[pqumsieh]

Just a note between Assault for Wehr and PE. PE assault is T1 and in no way should it be as effective as a T2 assault for Wehr.

Second, it appears to me that people expect this T2 ability to be more cost effective than it ought to be. The ability to break suppression and throw a great deal of powerful grenades has its uses and by no means requires a significant defensive bonus to make it effective. Many have argued its easy to dodge, others have said its not as effective as others state. So you are more than willing to address the issue of skill when it comes to defending against the ability but not when it comes to using the ability?

Bottom line: If an ability causes you to retreat your units back to your spawn, as so many people have suggested, then is that not in-and-of itself a very powerful ability? This ability when used in conjunction with sprint allows players to effectively push the opposing team off the map. That is how its being used, bottom line, there is no arguing around that.

One person has suggested to bring on armor as an effective counter. Although I agree armor fairs extremely well against volks with the assault ability, it also highlights the effectiveness of the tactic. The idea is to essentially push right form the start, ending games in less than 15 minutes typically. During the beginning phases of a game, you will have roughly 25-28 population allowing you to only bring on so much armor or infantry. If you do bring on armor, this tactic allows them to out cap you giving them a significant early pop advantage allowing them to easily counter your armor later on in the game while still maintaining a heavy amount of capping power. Armor works yes, but not well against this strategy. Bottom line: this ability is the crux of making this strategy work.

People have confirmed this view, albeit not willingly perhaps, by noting its counter. So again I ask, what are peoples expectations in regards to this abilities cost effectiveness and uses? In what ways should it excel? If it is so ineffective or easy to counter, why have so many players taken to spamming it (one player actually taking it as far as writing a guide on how to effectively spam it).

PQ

[skaffa]

Assault Nades (WM) are fine imo.
They can easily be dodged by running and countered by other moves, this depends on the players ability to micro and thats the goal of balance, he who micros better wins. The micro needed is very basic and simple micro moves can completely nullify the AN and the muni it cost, most likely the volks will also die trying which means wasted manpower.

[pqumsieh]

because point and click on the part of the volks squad is huge micro.

[skaffa]

Whats your point, you think its unbalanced because its easier to micro a Volks squad using AN than using a squad trying to dodge it ?

[Illegal_Carrot]

PQ I don't get what you're so upset about. Don't blob your troops and Assault can only target one unit at a time. It's easy to tell what squad is being targeted before the first grenade is even thrown. Then just move back that squad and force the brain-dead Volks AI to run right through your gun line, or have the run right into a Sherman, or jump into a house/transport, or...

As I said, it may not be possible to dodge 100% of the time, but the thing doesn't even stun anymore (thank god for that) and only actually works once in a while. Blitz Volks spam is hardly effective, and that's why all da pros use Defensive for that tactic.

And while Assault does not require too much in the way of micro, that's because you cannot actually micro the squad in the first place. It's also not a point-and-click ability; use it incorrectly and you're going to lose your entire investment without any pay off.

[pqumsieh]

people do not seem to be apprecaiting the game in context. You do not balance something out of context, thats just stupid.

Let me give you an example. What I do with my assault volk spam is target a group of infantry (who tend to be in groups of 2) essentially suiciding that unit to distract the other commander. The other commander now has a choice; he either micros that squad or he defends against my flanking puma/P4/ostwind/etc. If he choses the former I win, if he chooses the latter I win.

This is such an easy maneavuer to pull of it makes winning games lawlable. Will removing a defensive buff from volks change this? Maybe not.

Maybe keep the defensive buff and just bump assault to Tier 3 and make it 90 munition on volks.

PQ

[skaffa]

If you place it in context correctly, the other player could have a M8/Sherman/Croc.

[PonySlaystation]

pqumsieh, no, your idea is overkill.

It is more likely that the buff will be nerfed and then we'll see ingame that it's not at all as affective when you can just kill the volks/grens with supporting units. Right now you can have your entire army shooting at them and they still survive. The problem is not the damage or the fact that they can suppress, the problem is the huge buff they gain.

[pqumsieh]

Pony...that is my entire point. But from what I have heard the dev team feels the defensive bonuses ought to remain the same largely because you lose control of the squad using the ability.

That is, rather then require one to use the ability wisely, the defensive bonuses are there to allow easy tactics on the part of the axis commander.

However, after much thought it seems that this is only a small part of a much larger issue...the versatility and spamablity of volks. Myst and Speedy's company is a testimont to how powerful these tactics are and how incredably difficult they are to counter.  

Edit: this discussion is clearly not going to go anywhere. Let us leave it as, I'll be playing blitz for a few days so hopefully I can provide more constructive criticism.

PQ

[Tymathee]

lower it or take out the acc or def buff its just crazy. when assault is thrown, the unti targeted either has to run away or die cuz it keeps throwin until death and then they're hard to kill. there's no ability like that on allies, dont even talk smoke or fire up cuz they're still very killable and only last so long while assault keeps going until they stop it, the unit dies or gets in a building.

[skaffa]

I think, correct me if Im wrong PQ, we can agree that the problem lies, not in AN itself or using a couple in your company, but in using Volkspam with AN spam. Am I right ? Just trying to find the root of the issue, is it the AN itself or when spammed on volks ?

Personally I feel there is no problem with the AN itself.
However the context of using Volksspam with AN spam is a more interesting scenario and potentially worth discussing.

[skaffa]

Tbh I can see it being a problem when using Joint Ops. You dont see the AN icon, I can imagine that makes it pretty undodgeable.