[US] Bar suppression fire

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[nugnugx]

Upgrades change the purpose of a squad or make it better at what it already does.

or, if you are saying that suppression is bars main role, decrease its short DPS from 18 to 5 , so it cannot suppress and rape everything around it.

It should do either one,  dps or suppress, not both.

Currently it has crazy DPS of 18 on short range, and can do what you see on video.

[Spartan_Marine88]

or, if you are saying that suppression is bars main role, decrease its short DPS from 18 to 5 , so it cannot suppress and rape everything around it.

It should do either one,  dps or suppress, not both.

Currently it has crazy DPS of 18 on short range, and can do what you see on video.

If you change the dps to 5, make suppression fire passive.

In response to 3 BAR's you can field 2 Squads of Infantry and an HMG. Get in cover, suppress with HMG, move up.

fuck that, 1 hmg + 1 mortar its cheaper and it will beat the 3 bars if used properly

[PonySlaystation]

spartan, those are support units. If that's all you have then they can easily be flanked or outgunned by three riflemen.

[Groundfire]

or, if you are saying that suppression is bars main role, decrease its short DPS from 18 to 5 , so it cannot suppress and rape everything around it.

It should do either one,  dps or suppress, not both.

Currently it has crazy DPS of 18 on short range, and can do what you see on video.

Math please? Cant go around just quoting numbers as if we should believe you at face value.

[Mysthalin]

Nug, you proposing what? Reducing the short range accuracy of the BAR by a factor of 3.6? Don't be ridiculous.

[nugnugx]

Math please? Cant go around just quoting numbers as if we should believe you at face value.

http://picly.us/coh/Zaxis/mgs/

Nug, you proposing what? Reducing the short range accuracy of the BAR by a factor of 3.6? Don't be ridiculous.

idk what ,  cannot damage be reduced only for range ?

[Mysthalin]

Nope. Also - you do realise that if what you propose was done the BAR would become better at medium range than it is at short range? Which is retarded.

[nugnugx]

ok 6.5/5

[BigDick]

are these values dps?

if so wow bar rifles doing more than 36dps short range 14 dps med range and 5 dps longrange
while the lmg gren is doing just a bit more then 21dps short range 6 dps medium range and 2 dps long range


bars are rape  

calculation says a bar riflesquad does short range 52dps while a lmg gren squad does 40dps while lmgs are supposed to be short range much better then long range  

long range the bar squad dps is almost equal to lmg gren dps with a slight advantage for the bar rifles

[Demon767]

NERF STICK THIS SHIT!

[BigDick]

to compare it with g43 pgrens they are doing 28.5dps short range (bar rifles do almost double dps) and a bit less then bar rifles and lmg42 grens longrange

[nugnugx]

are these values dps?

yes


and you get 2 bars and 1 lmg  nice op


Not that anything is wrong with lmg , bar + sf is just crazy

[8thRifleRegiment]

Lmao i think we understand that pzgrens have no chance on the EiR battlefield of today, becuase now they cost the same as Grens and have been given better armor, but not a damage increase. Now its just a weaker gresn sqaud for same amount with a G43 that doesnt do much vs BARs

[Spartan_Marine88]

What i think you also need to take into account, is that while Bars do more damage then LMG42's they are also on a weak as shit platform.

Also unlike nugs video, most squads using cover and with the seargent are able to walk right up to the rifles and end it.

Not to mention that the nerf won't be necessacary soon enough (Balancers in this mod never look ahead) as didn't they say the sergant will be adding sprint and you won't have to wait till vet 2?

[BigDick]

how are rifles a shit plattform? a riflesquad has 10 more health then a gren squad and the same armor

and it has a couple of advantages if a squads health is divided into more men

e.g. a riflesquad can take much more damage before retreating then a grensquad

[nugnugx]

Not to mention that the nerf won't be necessacary soon enough (Balancers in this mod never look ahead) as didn't they say the sergant will be adding sprint and you won't have to wait till vet 2?

aren't you forgetting that there are other inf units ? 

Also unlike nugs video, most squads using cover and with the seargent are able to walk right up to the rifles and end it.

Most squads do not use cover, because you cannot use cover while you rush a unit, and all axis upgrades except LMG are rush weapons. mp40 mp44 fg42 g43

[sgMisten]

I'm not going to debate balance or not, no time for that nowadays, but I *am* going to correct clearly incorrect or misleading statements.

--

Most squads do not use cover, because you cannot use cover while you rush a unit, and all axis upgrades except LMG are rush weapons. mp40 mp44 fg42 g43

FG42 is the best stand-off long ranged infantry assault weapon in the game.
G43 is the best stand-off long ranged infantry rifle weapon in the game.

I waited to watch your video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSQvp1zSZ5I

The G43 squad clearly kills the riflesquad much faster than the vanilla PZGs do at long range. The vanilla PZGs only started killing much faster half way through the engagement when they were moved from long range into medium range.

--

Math please? Cant go around just quoting numbers as if we should believe you at face value.

NugX -> or, if you are saying that suppression is bars main role, decrease its short DPS from 18 to 5 , so it cannot suppress and rape everything around it.

It should do either one,  dps or suppress, not both.

Currently it has crazy DPS of 18 on short range, and can do what you see on video.

The BAR takes a damage and accuracy reduction, reducing DPS to <50% (~30% IIRC, just like G43 slow does) when suppression fire is activated. Which is on a CD timer.

That's the tradeoff between damage and suppression for the BAR.

[Mysthalin]

Squad health is largely irrelevant, BD.

No matter how much you bitch and moan how it's the most important thing ever - we all know that the vanilla gren squad will outdo a vanilla rifle squad - including short range. Even if the grenadier squad has both less health AND less DPS at short.

It's because the riflemen have a faster rate of firepower deterioration - which(surprise) is extremely important in most engagements.

To put in a game situation - a gren squad is capable of instantly killing a member of the rifle squad from the very first volley, and the chance of this is actually 4% at long range. The rifle squad can only put out a combined damage output of 57(not enough to kill a grenadier at 80 health) and even the chance for all these bullets to hit is merely 0.131%

The damage of the rifle squad is more spread out, and requires more registered hits to kill each grenadier : creating a double advantage for the grenadier.

[PonySlaystation]

fg42, g43 are not rushing weapons LOL
They are supposed to be used like lmgs, fg42 can work well closer but you still need cover.
It's still a good idea to use cover with mp40s, mp44s,ce. flamers and such.

"Most squads do not use cover"
Wow, do you not realize that cover is one of the major things that decides a firefight?? doesn't matter what unit you're using or facing, even vehicle cover makes a huge difference. It's no surprise that you can't counter BARs if you never use cover.

[BigDick]

Squad health is largely irrelevant, BD.

really? then make gren squads 6 men and keep them at 80hp per men and just lower the dps of k98 to fit the same as 4 men squad shouldnt make a difference according to u
 

No matter how much you bitch and moan how it's the most important thing ever - we all know that the vanilla gren squad will outdo a vanilla rifle squad - including short range. Even if the grenadier squad has both less health AND less DPS at short.

uh and if a volley kills a gren the firepower of the squad drops by 25% then by 33% then by 50% and then the squad needs to retreat

and yeah its a difference if you need to target 6 men or 4 men