Tank Reapers

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[WildZontar]

I find hilarious that most of your argument relies on something that was removed ages ago.

Hey hey hey, lets not get too personal here, you haven't contributed to this thread, so I would assume you don't have any right on attacking another forums poster in it. ;P

[Killer344]

I was attacking the credibility of the argument, derp.

[Groundfire]

I'm afraid you just don't get it Groundfire, and it leads into the general feeling in the community the dev's don't play the game and know what the heck is going on.  Remember before with ASW and having to be SHOWN that ASW was originally allowing more than 5+ grenades to be thrown?  And us being told 'no it isn't coded like that' until video proof (easy to produce) showed that someone made a mistake in the coding side and apparently never actually used it.  That's just one example of many.

My comparison to Elite armor is accurate and does fall into the discussion as I was fighting Spartan's british Coy and he had Tommys with Brens backed up by a LT and a Captain.  And you know what?  The Elite armor allows me to crush him.  I use Elite Armor grens to bum rush MGs (other than Vickers with instant pin) and I can overwhelm them from the front, I am not worried about suppression with my Gren army because of this.  Now that sounds like it's helping me overcome an inherant flaw that they shouldn't be, but then at the same time it puts me on par as being like rangers and not having to worry about suppression.  My Blitz company has gone more than a 2:1 win/loss because the only 'effective' counters against my grens are tanks.  I can floor any infantry unit being I have super tough 'german rangers'.  I laugh at riflemen trying to fight me, and I will still insist Grens are the mainline german infantry despite what some devs cannot see.

Also your example of the one rifle in support of an MG is flawed, perhaps showing you do not play this game enough, but I have no problems using a pure gren army to overwhelm a supported MG short of a tank like a Churchill or Jumbo or something, which is what my 3 panthers are for to back up my 23+ elite armor grens.

EDIT: And let me add, as we're talking here.. ASW covered a inherrant weakness of Airborne.. assault grenades to counter all infantry, and the half strengths bazookas which let vanilla unarmed squads counter vehicles that are immune to small arms fire...

Ok, first off on the aysemmetric warfare, that's a way bad example considering that its' a past doctrine build ability. These stat buff rules were only just established with this doctrine build. Back then, we had 2 different coders that each wanted to do the doctrines a certain way and no one could agree on a common ground.

Aysemmetric warfare is basically Assault and Assault has this nifty little way of "reseting" itself allowing the ability to go on indeffinately. So it's not the coder's fault at all, he was correct in that ASW only threw 6-8 grenades, its just the way relic coded assault that was bad and we didnt know fully back then what the cause was for this.

Thats the past, things are more standardized this doctrine build.

Now as for your army, im not going to tell you what can and cannot beat elite armor grens, but objectively, with a little micro, proper unit combinations, tactical awareness and cover use anything can be defeated, and lets just leave it at that.

[Demon767]

So explain old Airborne where it has mass damage and penetration, the need for Airborne Rifles, ASW T4 which let it counter things that would rape the hell out of Airborne.  Tank Reapers buffing the Jumbo... does that not cause a problem for Medium armor as well?  Isn't that contradicting yourself Demon in that it's not buffing what the unit could do better (ie the Jumbo is anti-inf) and now you gave it more options to kill things that it couldn't kill before... being Medium armor and panthers (though I wouldn't push it against super heavies).

Maybe you need to get it through your own head Demon and actually play the game and learn how things are actually being played and not theoretical stuff that sounds good on paper but isn't working out in game.

Also, I don't know why you have to be pretty rude going ALL CAPS TO GET MY POINT ACROSS BECAUSE MY ARGUMENT IS DEFEATED, and I don't mean to be rude but dude chill out.

WHY DO YOU KEEP BRINGING UP ASW WHEN IT WAS TAKEN OUT FOR THE EXACT REASON BECAUSE IT CAN TAKE ON EVERYTHING???

BRING A REPLAY OF NON BUFF JUMBO AGAINST P4. THEN BUFFED JUMBO AGAINST P4 AND COMPARE. IF IT DOES BEAT THE P4 WE TAKE OUT THE JUMBO BUFF. HAPPY?

[lionel23]

Again Demon, chill do, you're acting like an irrational child.  You again did not read my whole post, and I'm only covering what I'm familar with being airborne and inf.  What about Tank Reapers buffing an Anti-Inf tank to be anti-tank now?  I don't know why you have selective hearing (or seeing in this case) issues, but learn to actually read the whole post before making irrational and emotional statements demon.

@ Groundfire - i'll concede that point Ground, very thoughtful post and I do agree with you that, with micro, unit combinations, and tactics, yeah any unit can beat any other unit so I'll just leave it at that. Do think it's interesting and thank you for the explanation on that 'resetting' issue that the relic coders fault there, among many other questionable things they did XD

[Demon767]

um read my last edit my bad lol

[Groundfire]

The jumbo is a normal sherman with panther armor. A beefy generalist tank, it is neither AT or AI, but TR gives it a slight boost to it's AT capabilities. Its still absolutely no where near as good as the normal sherman upgun.

TR gives a +25% pen boost, while normal sherman upgun gives something like x2 pen. Way different stuff. Just an option. You still wont beat a panther or a Tiger, just beat a P4 more easily.

[Demon767]

Ah so regular will still be P4.

Lionel, we have no problem with Jumbos with the extra penetration.

[WildZontar]

Ah so regular will still be P4.

Lionel, we have no problem with Jumbos with the extra penetration.

Because people rarely take Jumbos? Or the fact that it's a tank that could take out PE Halftrack Vehicles

[lionel23]

Ah okay, my issue isn't with the Jumbo (I mean I love that sucker, was always against giving it an upgun and thus negating medium armor), so as long as the Jumbo isn't WTFpwning with TR and negating Axis Medium armor, which I honestly miss seeing on the field.

@ Demon - Read your Edit btw, I would love to compare but that would require me grinding out a company to Tank Reapers, so someone who actually is running TR (which I don't know anyone who is currently since the nerf) would have to provide a video how much more effective the Jumbo is with that buff, but again Groundfire's post pretty much explains what it looks like so we can leave it at that.

[Demon767]

That T4 just explains your whole Core, infact i would build my company around just having those units, ATGs, Rangers and Jumbos

Seriously we got a tank thats supped up against Medium armor and infantry, then we have a ATG thats even better to take out Axis armor of any calibre
then we have Rangers with SMGS and Zooks to wtf pwn and rushing LV against your ATG and to even destroy armor when flanking

Do you see now why its a balanced T4 now Lionel. Rangers are still expected to perform the same role, but better and killing because damage increase. We then have the best ATG in game became better, to be more feared. and the workhorse of your company, the Jumbo, to keep those pesky flanking from medium tanks. There all perform better but nothing exceeding what expected.

Infact im gonna make a TR account for the EXACT company build i just told you, seriously with micro its gonna be beast and impenetrable.

[panzerman]

rangers are for killing LV and assualting hard points

[BigDick]

I'm afraid you just don't get it Groundfire, and it leads into the general feeling in the community the dev's don't play the game and know what the heck is going on.  Remember before with ASW and having to be SHOWN that ASW was originally allowing more than 5+ grenades to be thrown?  And us being told 'no it isn't coded like that' until video proof (easy to produce) showed that someone made a mistake in the coding side and apparently never actually used it.  That's just one example of many.

My comparison to Elite armor is accurate and does fall into the discussion as I was fighting Spartan's british Coy and he had Tommys with Brens backed up by a LT and a Captain.  And you know what?  The Elite armor allows me to crush him.  I use Elite Armor grens to bum rush MGs (other than Vickers with instant pin) and I can overwhelm them from the front, I am not worried about suppression with my Gren army because of this.  Now that sounds like it's helping me overcome an inherant flaw that they shouldn't be, but then at the same time it puts me on par as being like rangers and not having to worry about suppression.  My Blitz company has gone more than a 2:1 win/loss because the only 'effective' counters against my grens are tanks.  I can floor any infantry unit being I have super tough 'german rangers'.  I laugh at riflemen trying to fight me, and I will still insist Grens are the mainline german infantry despite what some devs cannot see.

Also your example of the one rifle in support of an MG is flawed, perhaps showing you do not play this game enough, but I have no problems using a pure gren army to overwhelm a supported MG short of a tank like a Churchill or Jumbo or something, which is what my 3 panthers are for to back up my 23+ elite armor grens.

EDIT: And let me add, as we're talking here.. ASW covered a inherrant weakness of Airborne.. assault grenades to counter all infantry, and the half strengths bazookas which let vanilla unarmed squads counter vehicles that are immune to small arms fire...

how many rangers do you have in your company? 20?
you get elite armor by default without a T4 on a 6 men high HP squad
you get a suppression neutralize utility to ignore directional suppression by default
you get the best grenades in the game
and you get very good smgs on upgrade and a cheap supporting AT upgrade

everything on one unit without any doctrine buffs needed just a T1 unit unlock

the T4 we are talking about about buffs what 90% of your company (rangers ATguns jumbos) and your begging for more that zooks reliable penetrate most tanks frontal armor?
whats your plan? completely skip AT guns too and build just a big rangerblob around jumbos to tear to everything?

i even would rethink the jumbo upgun on that T4 to give it a major drawback in terms of splash
because now its like a slower supercheap better armored panther with a bit less damage vs tanks that can take on infantry very good

[WildZontar]

BigDick, what's your game name in EiRR?

[nugnugx]

wat is this thread

i don't even

[brn4meplz]

Arguing the probability of stats is pointless. We've allseen jeep bounce 88's and Bikes kill pershings. frankly it wouldn;t be CoH without the machine ghosts fucking with stats( for one patch the 95mm cromwell had like a 10,000% chance to penetrate an infantry and shots still bounced off them

[Mgallun74]

omg... let this thread die, and we wonder why we have people sitting in launcher for hours looking at screen for a game... sheesh.

[Tymathee]

BigDick, what's your game name in EiRR?

he'll never tell you, he doesn't even use his boardname as his sign in name for eirr so no one can look at the LB's and see who he is.

anyway, i think TR is fine. Jumbos do really well vs medium armor with the +25 buff, and can even hold it's own vs a panther because of the armor (I"ve done it many times, even a tiger for a while)

you add that onto ATGs and rangers, mines, stickies, build our coy around that and you have a very good AT coy. The fact is, the TR tree (other than the crappy t3) is one of the more balanced tree's in EIRR and is one of my favorite. the reason you dont see anyone really use it is cuz it's NOT OP, even b4 the changes tbh, its just not strong enough but can be nasty in the right hands. Heck, i miss my TR coy i'd so use the mines now.

and lionel i think u miss teh fact that groundfire DOES play, is very good and is one of the more vocal devs on the forum, if anyone's word is valid about a particular ability, it's his.

[brn4meplz]

I know...






it's Aloha!


haha naw,I'll never spill someones info unless they need an "emergency company restructuring" The brn4meplz special

[AmPM]

Hey Brn, where have you been hiding anyway?