ATG sniping

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[PonySlaystation]

The best way to balance things is usually just to give it to both teams. If both teams have it then it's no longer OP. There is nothing wrong with how PE AT works now, they have fast but vulnerable units, It's how the PE doc works, so if used well you can round up many kills with 50mm and Armored Cars, just keep a marder nearby, they complement each other very well. They don't need slow moving but powerful AT guns, they would never be able to keep with the hit & run strategy that is Panzer Elite. Giving PE too many support units would just turn them into a Wehr-like support focused playstyle without the heavy tanks part.

But they should still have a sniper, some equivalent of commando sniper. That can be used on the offense and to counter snipers.

[lionel23]

True that Pony, but then look at British, who have pretty much all the mobile stuff the US has and never were intended to get in vCOH.  They relied on emplacements, but we know how much that sucked so they got a mobile vickers, ATG, and mortar to compensate, as well as still retaining the never-used emplacements (other than the 25lber of course).

Why could such an option be given to PE?  Do you want to mobile 50mm or a recrewable, remannable ATG?

[Tymathee]

True that Pony, but then look at British, who have pretty much all the mobile stuff the US has and never were intended to get in vCOH.  They relied on emplacements, but we know how much that sucked so they got a mobile vickers, ATG, and mortar to compensate, as well as still retaining the never-used emplacements (other than the 25lber of course).

Why could such an option be given to PE?  Do you want to mobile 50mm or a recrewable, remannable ATG?

the difference is that PE is supposed to be a mobile vehicle based faction, thus they got the 50mm HT, which is a pak on wheels. the iht got its suppression upped, so its a little better than a .30 cal in terms of power and suppression, and now they've got the hmg 36 and hmg 42 for luft and SE, heck the SE hmg 42 is better than the wehr 42 cuz they get 4 men.  Either stick to doc design or just mirror everything, the back n forth is killin me.

also brits were given mobile guns because without them they're a highly stagnant faction who just sits there and its not conducive to EIR game play, while an already mobile faction like PE fits in better.

i always felt that the 17 pdr, vickers and mortar should've just been made into reg guns that could turned into emplacements and not able to move. but they get more health, sight and about 5-10% more accuracy (cuz they're emplaced, they're secured and weighted to the ground, makes it easier to aim)

[lionel23]

Problem with that Tym on the emplacements, which I used a lot when I ran my old Brit company, is remaking an emplacement instantly heals the unit.

And you don't have to tell me that on doc design or mirror, as it seems no one has a concrete ruleset and there are exceptions to everything... ie versatility with allies, none with axis for the most part in my eyes.  Preaching to the choir here.

And mobility can sometimes cost you man, and I think the OPTION to run a more mobile (but not ENTIRELY mobile) force is what PE should be over Wehr.  Because so many of their units are vehicles, US has a field day kicking the snot out of PE, and I tend to go a more infantry-oriented path when I play any faction.. whether it is mass elite Grenadiers, mass rangers or mass Falls and commandos.  I do agree and wish the brit emplacement weapons were mobile instead of as builders, though they can't move and honestly think range should be given to something that can't move to make it semi-viable.  Extra health and sight and acccuracy is not really needed, especially since emplacements take a crap ton of dmg from shreks and arty, have a MASSIVE footprint and can't dodge shots (heck they even BLOCK shots from your own units, like an ATG behind a 17lber will end up killing your own emplacement cause he can't shoot around the massive beast).

[spinn72]

Can people not see in the TD tier tree that PE are receiving Pak 36's?

I would have also thought less complaints would have been around for PE considering their strength now that AB is an unpopular doctrine choice. Oh god I can't wait to hear the crying when AB are implemented!

(waits for 2 years)

[8thRifleRegiment]

pak36 is fail and has little-no pen and is only for infantry, unless they change it from the BK stats

[brn4meplz]

The Pak36 is going in for Tank Hunters but it's slated to recevie changes so it can actually try and hold up Infantry in it's arc, somewhat similar to a HMG(Not same but similar)

Before it was just a dirt cheap manpacked Ostwind that got flanked easily(even with it's huge arc)

[Demon767]

You do realise that any mobility is negated after the first 5 minutes on the battlefield.

because its not safe to rush a core with your call in

and after everyones fighting over the center. 50mms are stagnant. you basically use 50mms like ATG because thats how they are intended to be used. so saying your paying for Mobility is stupid. as once the battle is going on, your 50mms become immobile and it assumes normal ATG roles, thus ATG and HHAT have the advantage, yet cost the same

[lionel23]

Demon are you blind in how different a 50mm is from an ATG?  It still retains mobility due to the fact it can drive away, while regular ATG crews have to move into position, pick up the gun, half the time rotate and start walking.  God forbid one guy is killed, then they drop the gun, next guy goes to pick it up... many an ATG get overrun if not moved away early.  The 50mm does not suffer from this.

Also you have Infantry HTs which lets you quickly shuttle infantry around and protect them, mortar HTs that can run in there and drop their bombs of death and run away without having to deploy... those are all examples of mobility and if you're willing to blind yourself at that being a considerable advantage to PE, then there really can't be much help for you.

[NightRain]

Demon are you blind in how different a 50mm is from an ATG?  It still retains mobility due to the fact it can drive away, while regular ATG crews have to move into position, pick up the gun, half the time rotate and start walking.  God forbid one guy is killed, then they drop the gun, next guy goes to pick it up... many an ATG get overrun if not moved away early.  The 50mm does not suffer from this.

Also you have Infantry HTs which lets you quickly shuttle infantry around and protect them, mortar HTs that can run in there and drop their bombs of death and run away without having to deploy... those are all examples of mobility and if you're willing to blind yourself at that being a considerable advantage to PE, then there really can't be much help for you.

All the mobility is awsome. Except dies to 2 anti tank gun shots. Mortar halftrack has small deployment time and while it is firing it can NOT move until the reload is complete. Can't wait for Airborne to drop in with full force. PE...I think none will use PE once AB is in.

[8thRifleRegiment]

Demon does have a point tho, late game, 50s and marders get negated ALOT becuase of the huge amouint of allied atgs around, especially with thier terrible pathfinding making them move around is hard harder.

[Malgoroth]

Marders and 50mms are the backbone of PE AT. Shrecks are expensive and unreliable (especially now that their platform costs more..) and are really only good when used in an infantry ht.

ATGs sniping marders is almost as ridiculous as ATGs sniping ATGs since the two fill essentially the same roll and it gimps PE something terrible when their only reliable cost/pop effective AT is killed so easily... but it makes sense since marders and 50mms are vehicles. It'd be stupid for ATGs to consistently miss a big ass slow as fuck marder, right?

I don't know the accuracy values of AT guns... but happy compromise time! Lower AT guns LONG RANGE ACCURACY against marders and 50mms to the same values as they have against other ATGs. Aggressive marders get punished as usual, but marders way the fuck in back have a chance to escape.

I like my ideas.

[Demon767]

Lionel, if your argument had any weight. It would mean that this problem wouldnt have even arised in the first place, That PE AT could just scoot on back without being hit by ATG's, but that is false. The only obvious advantage of PE AT is it being able to rotate quick.

but the point being, your ATG's are meant to hold the line and keep your frontline clear, where as PE, it is difficult to hold any frontline, you are constantly pulling back your AT HT so it wont be hit by ATGs while your searching for a flank or a successful mortar that destroys the ATG.
Just one of the flaws of PE

Also like to point out though that this extra micro required to perform the job of a ATG is at a disadvantage because the gun sucks. no reward for that micro

[BigDick]

The only obvious advantage of PE AT is it being able to rotate quick.

w00t? the biggest disadvantage of marders (after that they r sniped by AT guns) is there complete horrorble rotation speed

it rotates even slower than a 17pounder while its firering cone is below of 40% of it

compared to a 57mm/pak38 it depends how far it need to be rotated (because of time to get up AT guns before rotation) but condering the horrorble fire cone im pretty sure a marder needs more time to turn to aim at a flanking vehicle than a AT gun

and that it turns automatically to shoot onto some crap (like infantry) is in many situations a huge disadvantage

to put at in a nutshell
the marder sucks at rotation and aiming of flanking targets

[NightRain]

w00t? the biggest disadvantage of marders (after that they r sniped by AT guns) is there complete horrorble rotation speed

it rotates even slower than a 17pounder while its firering cone is below of 40% of it

compared to a 57mm/pak38 it depends how far it need to be rotated (because of time to get up AT guns before rotation) but condering the horrorble fire cone im pretty sure a marder needs more time to turn to aim at a flanking vehicle than a AT gun

and that it turns automatically to shoot onto some crap (like infantry) is in many situations a huge disadvantage

to put at in a nutshell
the marder sucks at rotation and aiming of flanking targets

Marder in a Nutshell. Drive it to a road and watch it outroatate every tank.

Marder in non road ground. Reverse is your friend. Know how to use a StuG You'll know how to back up a marder as well.

[spinn72]

Airborne currently dominates in the meta game, nobody expects it, or brings enough counters to hordes of it.
Problem, PE?

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Airborne currently dominates in the meta game, nobody expects it, or brings enough counters to hordes of it.
Problem, PE?

A WILD SCOUTCARS APPEARS!!
IT USES LOCKDOWN!!!
ITS SUPEREFFECTIVE!!!

[chefarzt]

Airborne dominated when everyone was expecting massive tank spam and went defense.
But fails horribly against the actual Tiger + Battlehardened madness. Especially without doctrine stuff.

[WildZontar]

Wait, so is this still a conversation about ATG sniping? Or about how bad PE is?

[chefarzt]

Discussion bout atg sniping can be ignored as they show up every once and then. Just wait for the next one.