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[Tymathee]

mobile pak = pe 50mm

and axis have ways of killing jumbos. LIke i said, just cuz you suck too hard to kill one doesn't mean no one else can.

and no, dont give axis ap rounds. they already have the strongest damaging units in the game, giving them ap rounds is ludicrous.

The strongest anti tank that the allies have is the AT-Gun, and thats 150 base damage. next is Pershing at 137.5 and after that the m-10 and m-18 at 112.5. Brits have the Firefly at 125, the 6 pdr at 150 and the 17 at 150
The axis on the other had have several units that do more than 112.5.
G-Wagon
Marder
Tiger
King Tiger
Panther
Jagdpanther
Flak 88
Panzerschreck
Goliath
Pak38

and of these choices, the Jumbo would get raped by
tiger
king tiger
panther
jagdpanther
flak 88
schreck
goliath

the only thing it would beat 1 v 1 is the pak38.

So please, give me a break dude.

[NightRain]

StuGs rape Jumbos pretty hard right on their face. OW!

[Tymathee]

StuGs rape Jumbos pretty hard right on their face. OW!

Right, if he bothered to actually check rgds, he'd see stugs get 45% pen vs panther skirts.
ppanthers have 204% pen

oh and here's a funny oversight. Stuh gun = 100% pen vs panther skirted armor. (damage 100)

[DarkSoldierX]

Shreks are terrible vs jumbo, Shrek does get pen decreace like every other hand held AT.
 
The jumbo is priced for what it does ATM, just some weapons need pen changed, and it should pay mun for skirt

[panzerman]

jumbo is fine leave as is.

[skaffa]

You gotta hit it from the side or rear, its pretty slow so be pro and flank that shit.

[PonySlaystation]

You gotta hit it from the side or rear, its pretty slow so be pro and flank that shit.

That pretty much goes for every tank in the game.

[Malgoroth]

Tym, don't be stupid. I know "overwhelming" was a poor choice of words. I even admitted it in the post. I only used it because I couldn't think of a better word at the time. Since you read my post you surely must have realized that. Unless, of course, your reading comprehension is a bad as your bias (fanboy).

Damn, I'm not even saying the Jumbo is OP and Tym urgently tries to defend his company build (because he's a fanboy)

/troll tym

The Jumbo is still a better fit for armor doctrine. Infantry doesn't need a heavy tank to support its riflemen/rangers since its infantry and support weapons are buffed to hell as it is. And if they want to tailor their company to be better at AT they have tank reapers in their doctrine for just that purpose. They don't need a Jumbo in their build to support that. It edges up to overkill.

Armor on the other hand has shitty pee pee infantry and if someone doesn't want to invest giant chunks of resources into pershings they wouldn't have too. They could have cheaper tough ass shermans instead. And with the buffs to tanks in that doctrine the Jumbo would be more than a meat shield, but wouldn't be OP because it wouldn't have elite armor, fire-up, smg/zook bastards running all around it.  

So, in short: All I'm saying is don't give a new heavy tank unit to infantry doctrine; give it to armor. It's in the name after all. If you wanted to play with heavy tanks you should have gone armor anyway. You don't see me asking for super heavy ATGs for terror doctrine. If I wanted that shit I'd go defensive, where super heavy ATGs belong.

[pqumsieh]

just an FYI; I really do not respect any of you who find the need to insult other players in order to advance your own argument. On the one hand, it really just makes you look like you have no real argument so you resort to childish tactics. On the other hand, it makes you look very unintelligent.

If someone is a "fan boy" or biased that will come through in his or her arguments. We don't need you pointing things out every second because it makes you think that your argument is all of a sudden better.

Just because someone disagrees with your argument does not mean he is a troll. Malgoroth and nugnug, this point is mainly to you; but many others fall under the same point of issue. I hope this message gets through to you both; my guess is you will just proceed to TRY and do the same thing to me. Unfortunately for you two, I'd eat you both for lunch.

PQ

PS: If you take anything from this post, its that YOU ARE ALLOWED TO DISAGREE WITH OTHER PEOPLE. If you do not agree with Tym say so and move on. Perhaps point out what issues you disagree on if you feel the need. Overall, he has provided relatively valid points and I see no issue (including no bias) in his post. The both of you on the other hand clearly are presenting an axis bias.

[Malgoroth]

Me trolling tym (for now, anyway) is simply a response to him misrepresenting what I said earlier and trying to get under his skin because it's really easy and kind of fun. Something I thought was obvious with the /troll tym thing. And if you look at my ACTUAL response to his argument (and the theme of the thread) there is no reference to his fanboy-ness.

Nice attempt at playing the bigger man though. We are all thoroughly moved by your internet integrity.  

[nugnugx]

and nugnug

You mad ? If anyone Tym insulted me in this thread, i posted nothing but arguments  and he told me to shut up. ( i didn't even call him a fanboy)

I suggest you go back to posts and re-read them and think twice before you make a post judging someone, because clearly you just posted what suited you currently.

[skaffa]

That pretty much goes for every tank in the game.

True. Was a reaction to 8th who said schrecks suck vs it. Standard shermans m10s etc do get penetrated by pretty much everything including schrecks from the front taking heavy dmg, except the jumbo. Schrecks dont suck vs Jumbo. just dont shoot at the front but from the flanks. Hardly anything will penetrate the jumbo from the front, so yes vs everything always flank, but especially vs the jumbo cuz its slow making it easier, but especially becuz shooting at the front wont get you anywhere at all. If you attack a jumbo head on with schrecks you pretty much played bad. Gotta think pro and be smart, lure it in, then flank it properly, it wont get away that fast with its slow speed. The #1 you want to avoid when playing vs jumbo is to get kited by it, especially your inf which wil get raped.

[Tymathee]

imo, if u put the jumob in armor, the buffs armor gets would make it either too good (especially the speed and repair buffs) or it would be considered useless, why get a jumbo if you have a pershing. Better gun, faster, and better or similar received penetration

2 Pershings is more valuable than being able to get 4 jumbos.

oh and i forgot this until i just played with it and it annoyed me, it has a slower rotation speed than a normal sherman, which can be a real bother, and makes flanking it so much easier.

[Poppi]

imo, if u put the jumob in armor, the buffs armor gets would make it either too good (especially the speed and repair buffs) or it would be considered useless, why get a jumbo if you have a pershing. Better gun, faster, and better or similar received penetration

2 Pershings is more valuable than being able to get 4 jumbos.

oh and i forgot this until i just played with it and it annoyed me, it has a slower rotation speed than a normal sherman, which can be a real bother, and makes flanking it so much easier.

OMG the turret is slow.

[Malgoroth]

I don't think the buffs would make it OP. Its stats are shit against tanks. With armor doctrine it might behave like a super armored 76mm. Not super powerful. Just better (I don't have access to corsix, so if someone wants to take the time to see what the stats would be with something like hvap applied that'd be cool).

The unit itself isn't OP, it's the synergy (I hate the fucking word) it brings to the doctrine with rangers and buffed support weapons that makes it seem so. Honestly I think something like a 105 sherman would be a better fit for a doctrine unlock. Right now it feels like the Jumbo overbuffs the infantry doctrines capabilities.

I think the option to have 4 double repair doctrine buffed Jumbos as opposed to 2 pershings might be tempting to some. Less pop means they could field more units at once with Jumbos than they could with the pershing. And having 4 of them means more chances to get your resources worth out of them in case you do something stupid or get jewed over somehow. Imho putting the Jumbo in armor would add some variety to that doctrine.

[Tymathee]

i didn't say it'd make it OP i said either too good or not worth it. It fits infantry perfectly, it's damage soaker, which was a real life doctrine, axis have always been able to do this with panthers, tigers, kt's, jagds, stugs, stuh's and hetzers, US until the jumbo only had the pershing

[PonySlaystation]

Jumbo is fine, it is the entire definition of a balanced unit. If anything it's the cost, but I consider the unit to be perfectly balanced ingame. Stop arguing about it already.

The best counter is still with tanks btw, if you haven't already realized this it's pretty much like the IST, can't do shit against tanks. Even upgun pumas can kill it easily.

[Malgoroth]

Seriously? Your definition of a damage soaker and mine must be way off. Hetzers? Seriously? Besides, with 17 pdrs, and AP 57's stalking every battlefield you would NOT want to risk "soaking" damage with any other those tanks. You would be sorely disappointed with the results.

The Jumbo is fine stat-wise. It still should be moved to armor where it would be a much better fit. Infantry doesn't need a heavy tank to hide behind. Infantry support can be achieved by the regular sherman.

Like I said... if you want to play with heavy tanks you should go armor.

[Tymathee]

Dude, no it can't be achieved by a regular sherman, every axis anti tank weapon penetrates Shermans, they're so vulnerable. Yes you can achieve a good amount of damage but they die so freakin easily. Theres only 3 vet 3 shermans in the whole of eirr 21 vet 2 while there are 14 vet 3 p4's and 17 vet 2.

Also, if you talk about getting a 105 to infantry, you'd probably whine about them 1 hitting axis support weaponry which is what every similar type gun does, like the 90mm crom or the 105mm stuh. Then you'd just have ranger 105 spam coys, why even bother having a howitzer?

[nugnugx]

Just had a game where i saw a jumbo penetrating jagpanther front armor from long range.