[US] Company Builds (or rather, Platoons)

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[TheVolskinator]

Alright, so as I've said before, I've played CoH for 4 years. That gets me a little less than jack shit in experience in EiR. I love(d) (to) play(ing) with infantry heavy builds; I've been a diehard Ami Inf Comm fanboi since I started playing the game. Now, this is all well and good--but it gets me nowhere because it seems every frigging Axis player has at least 2 vetted tigers, a vetted KT, instarape PaK 40s, Jagdtigers, or a blob of vet3 KCH that they devote ~1 second of micro to during the whole match. My first three (and soon to be 5/6 of when i get the battalion pop) Infantry-tab Platoons consist of 3x Riflemen and 1x M1916. One rifle has BARs and stickies, and the other two have pineapple nukes. One platoon is an Officer, Mortar, and M8/Engineer Minesweeper. As for AT, I'm hosting 3 ATGs and 2 Shermans, along with anywhere from 1-3 M18s, and however many M10s I can sqeeze into the Armor Platoon tab. Single assault platoon with Vet3 Full Package'd Rangers and 2x Flamegineers w. mines & demo.  Support platoons just consist of one with an engie (mines+triage) and a 105 howie; I have a trio of HTs I rotate in and out of storage to fill in any popcap or measure out an under-gunned platoon. Anyone with eyes sees that I have a lot of AI firepower, but not a lot of AT. Is this going to nip me in the ass as I go along? I've only been in EiR for two days (6 matches), but I've seen 11 Tigers and 4 KTs; seems to me the uber units are all on the axis side of the playing field--in every game, I was the lowest lv'd Ally, did the most in terms of capping and damage, but we still got cleaned. Are the allies on their back feet most of the time; pakspam, the aforementioned tanks, and armies of KCH and grenadiers seem to outgun, outlive, and outsize all of their allied counterparts. Only allied strongpoint is arty; any use of it and it's called a spam, so I assume that using it at all is a no-no in EiR. Comments are welcome, explanations too. I'm just trying to wrap my head around EiR; its nothing like BKmod, AfrikaKorps, EF, or BoTB (to say the least). 

[Mister Schmidt]

Your infantry call ins are way too big. Two squads at most in every platoon. I'll keep reading and reply to the rest, but yeah.

[Mister Schmidt]

Also, you have enough hard AT, maybe replace the hellcats with m10s for the moment, and are the shermans upgunned? If not, they get raped by even stugs tbh. But you need more infantry based AT, you have rangers, an extremely, if not the most, versatile unit, just a couple squads with zooks will help.

If you want a good ranger build, ask Lionel.

[Demon767]

Can you please put paragraphs in next time. 

[CollectiveSTLS]

 I've always found that when deploying new companies, your going to get a lot of games against very experienced and heavilly vetted opponents. Mostly it means taking them on requires careful tactics, drawing them back and surrendering ground whilst you whittle them down. Especially early on in games of EiR the amount of territory isn't that important so focusing on ensuring your units act most efficiently in terms of damage is always a better option then merely outcapping.
 With kt's and tigers... they're an arse to deal with, a mine or sticky(if you can land it) can of course cripple their usefulness but generally i see them dealt with by sniping them down with AT till they're weakened then going in for the kill with more mobile units, especially M10's. Some tigers charge atgs but 1 rifle squad and 1 hmg covering them can ensure the tiger has little or no inf support and is running right into your stickies. I'd expect most tiger players to pull back rather than risk it tbh.
 Also the presious post of smaller platoons is a good one, inf platoons rarely need to be more than 10-12 pop (2 rifles or 2 rangers) or even 8(rifles and engies) just generally helps you keep closer to max pop on the field at all times .
 I guess you know pretty much what your doing and most adive i can give is wasted but hey i might as well see if i have even one thought that helps :p.

[Demon767]

I also like to point out that any prior experience in COH is kinda useless in EIR. The underlying issue might not even be your company, but your vcoh micro. Play a few games, get used to the play style because its 100% different then Vcoh without changing any game mechanics.

[PonySlaystation]

I also like to point out that any prior experience in COH is kinda useless in EIR. The underlying issue might not even be your company, but your vcoh micro. Play a few games, get used to the play style because its 100% different then Vcoh without changing any game mechanics.

LOL

[RoyalHants]

I also like to point out that any prior experience in COH is kinda useless in EIR. The underlying issue might not even be your company, but your vcoh micro. Play a few games, get used to the play style because its 100% different then Vcoh without changing any game mechanics.

Putting stuff in cover isnt a Vcoh tactic trooololololololol

[Demon767]

2 Noobs that dont understand anything right there ^

[TheVolskinator]

I did mention that my prior experience got me jack shit in EiR. Smaller platoons tend to get raped by [insert unit name here] before I can coordinate another, and I tend to run with platoons styled as a 'set' for a task at hand; e.g. 3 BARd+stickied rifles (vetted, ofc) as mainline troops, 1-2-3 w. M3s and zooks as improv assault troops, or some vet0 rifles with zip and an mg to lure enemy squads into. M18s...shit, what a joke since ToV. M10s still have the misfire bug, I presume? Game mechanics actually still apply; you have to flank MGs, use cover, trick the enemy, mice placement is key, infantry vet becomes insanely important, and the rock-paper-scissors effect is magnified with the restricted popcap; blobs of 1 unit type don't work. Those saying that cover is worthless etc dont have a damned brain in their skulls. @ Collective (who I realise I've already met in-game and friended), as a US Inf Comm, luring enemy units into traps is a must if you're using infantry-heavy strats. Its a matter of being able to appropriate recon; jeeps/bikes still die from dirt clods xD. Squads are now downsized, if anyone cares to hear it. 3 platoons w. 2 BARd+stickied+field triage each (P1- V2, V2; P2- V1, V2; P3, V1, V1), a (lol) Vet2 Officer, and a couple of cannon fodder rifles. MGs are proving to be easier to get killed than engies (who are both vet2, oddly, and doing quite well in the assault line). All in all it seems to be tanks that suffer the most; I've run through at least a dozen shermans today; the two I still have only have 8 and 11 XP. I've upgunned them, gladly; I think the 75mm needs a wee buff. The three biggest issues for me are: Gren blobs--much more deadly than Vcoh; zombie grenadiers are driving me fucking nuts. The 50mm ATHT -- these things are freaking murder to anything that isnt on legs. And I see 4+ per game (sometimes at the same time). Mortar HT spam -- insanely annoying. Common sense is 'use inf' and 'snipe with TDs', but it's easier said than done, considering that theyre commonly blobbed together! xD.


EDIT: Few core platoon ideas: Sherman+HT w.2x rifle; 2x M10 w. rifle; 2x rifle+HT and ATG; 2x sherman bumrush; Opening with mortars/howies for the "wtf" factor.

[DarkSoldierX]

Surpression should be death for the gren spam when they are on the attack due to lack of cover of them. Use ATG to kill 50mm halftrack. The 57mm vs. 50mmHT is the equivalent of Sniper vs. ATG. And ATGs are alot more common than snipers are. When your playing againts blitz when the enemy gains sight of your ATGs, always reposition it about 5 meters, because a persicion strike is likely to come and they are easy to dodge.(the offmap that drops 1 very accuret bomb)

On Mortar HT's mine are usually killed by a M10 VERY easily.

[panzerman]

Smaller platoons are best even though they are selective it's about calling on multiple call ins to make up the difference. Like all my atg a seperste call ins on there own all my Inf come in groups of 2 or 1 if I need to recrew stuff. The only call ins that are more than 10 pop should be tanks and your start call in which should be 25 pop with at least 2 types of AT.
These smaller pop sizes make for more flexible gameplay as if u loose stuff cause you don't have enough AI or At you still can call on what you need to counter your current situation faster.

[Poppi]

IM trying to find a good inf build as well. And just about every game i switch things out. As i dont like many of their trade offs.

Unlocks:
I actually dont like many of these.

Rangers: I tried losing them since their weapons upgrade is CRAZY compared to inf Bars price. But there are times where their price is well worth it, and u get back your results 5 fold b/c they are tough and crazy. (which brings me to axis mentality of the game. Units are 1.5x the price of american equivalent  but can take out vehicles or inf and easily cause way more damage than they are worth. That little extra price and strength go a long way). So ranger KEEP.

Military Int-..its useful. So keep.

Triage- 120 mu and im already short on mu. So i dont like it. Plus rarely do inf walk away from a pinning. So i do alot of force retreats.

First Aids- Havent tried it, but looks good with upgrades for rangers.

Howi- Got it to rank 3 (just lost it today b/c of building error), and it barely hits anything. I just use it to deal with 88s or dug in troops. Calli rocks though. Howi Cant move and easy target. But re-manable.

Stacking shells is cool. When u re man or steal AT guns.

Infantry Equipent- Inf with 1 zook hardly worth it. 5 grease guns are okay for 55mu. But if u get oversupplied now u can choose 3 bars for 80 (w/ suppression) or 6 weak grease guns for 65. Ill take bars.

Arty Sat- Think it gives a warning, and then use it up. Does descent damage but its gone after 1 or 2 tries. Havent used it but seen it.

Inf Support vehicles- GMC 75mm never hits or kills any inf. And jumbo is cool b/c it takes LOTS of damage, but its slow even with turret. Plus expensive with fuel. I imagine it rocks if u get operation overlord sherman bonus to boost inf.

Specializations
Tank Reapers- Basically this is great, im big on ATGs, Rangers, and stickies. And i hate heavy armor. So i like going all the way with this one.

LnL- Support again takes alot of mu which im short on. So i stay away from that. And axis mortars always seem way more deadly and accurate and shoot further than my vet mortars who always get owned but enemy mortars. Good for snipers though. Really good.

Operation overlord- Basically gives shermans and offices bonus auras. I havent tried it but sounds cool. But sometimes these bonuses dont make a difference. And you cant always bring armor where the inf are heading. And i dont really use officers that much. Slow and always falling behind. I would like to try this though.

One thing i want to try is this:
I like rangers with tommys. Bars are great for suppression. Combine the two in the most efficient way possible. Im thinking oversupplied and support training, extra bar and extra accuracy for when on the move, more dodging, and more suppresion %. This means no tier 4 anymore. And maybe loose tier 3 unlock and go with MI, Rangers, First Aid, Stacking, and Specialty.

Im sure many will disagree, but im open to many strategies. im no EIRR expert but im trying lots of things

[DarkSoldierX]

You should really rethink

1. Triage, Just stop running into MG's, and this 120 mu investment will share the love healing the health of your ATGs(actual gun),rangers, and riflemen.

Triage is absolutely BEAUTIFUL dont overlook such a great unlock. This will help you outattrition your enemies.

2.Inf Support Veh, Jumbo is sexy although I admit I have yet to use it but it severly hurts all my other companies that arnt based on AT (such as SE and luft, and terror to a lesser effect)

I have seen GMC waist my squads down to 1 man forcing me to retreat many times when used it pairs VERY quickly at long range, but one isnt as good but it still snipes men. I am not sure on its true effectiveness though.

3. Howi is one of the things you will need to break a support spam axis, don't overlook it too much.

[TheVolskinator]

Steady Sights: This unlock is rape. Having played Relic's admittedly dreadful fallout of a sequel; CoHO, I can say that ~10% acc. is a huge difference; bigger the fight, more magnified it becomes.

Specialty Training: The howitzer was the apitomy of countering what is known as 'T2 Terror' in vCoh; the Wehr player would tech to 'Escalate to Skirmish Phase' at his HQ, and build a Kreig Barracks (GRenadiers, HT, Mortar, PaK). He'd spam volksgrenadiers and camp around a medic bunker (vcoh; medic bunkers house, durr, medics, that run out and pick wounded guys up, and bring them back to the bunker. Once 4 were brought back, you got a free grensquad. Rinse, repeat; this is where the term 'zombie grenadiers' comes from; if you fought him near that bunker, hed just get free troops (they cost 300 manpower per in vcoh, very VERY pretty penny (pak is 310). The blob would overrun even multiple vetted MGs etc... The Officer is more or less useless until you get Operation Overlord; sight and detection boosts dont  help you that much.

Field Triage: Yes, it is a very nice ability. However, not all squad members that drop from the squad are wounded; some are plain dead. Plus, your received Acc skyrockets if you use this, most of the time you lose two squaddies for the one you manage to revive, or lose the whole squad to a mortar shell etc as theyre all clusted right on top of the poor guy. Useful in a pinch, but as you usually have to use it under fire (after getting ~30 CoH units away from the downed man, the button greys out and cant be used even if you move back to him).

The Triage Center: Only use it on ONE engie. This engie should come in the same platoon as a/one of your 105 howies, and also have mines and possibly the MG nest if you think you'll need it. It pays foritself, and one of the other unlocks lets it heal faster and have a larger radius. The fact that it repairs the actual gun of ATGs is also very, very nice.

Rangers: Once they hit vet3 in vcoh, they were gods of the battlefield. They literally assraped everything on legs or treads; only Pumas stood a chance thanks to the horric accuracy and high scatter of the bazooka. In EiR, they rape; it's just a matter of vetting them.

Operation Overlord" Get it. From what the tooltip sais, this will make a huge diff. Officers grant 20% acc and damage--thats like Vet3 on rifles letting them have a 1.4 multiplyer instead of a 1.2!! The reduced acc and suppression when near a sherman (35 CoH units is the sight range of any standard unit; tanks, engies etc; bikes/jeeps have 50 or 55, respectively, and MG42s (used to) have 45 at Vet2). Less received acc and suppression means that your guys are more accurate with the help of an officer (vet=better aura. VET HIM UP!!), and harder to pin, or hit in the first place. Zookas with more acc and damage is great, and with the addition of--

Field Supplies: Get it. A bazooka is rape on a rifle; and with tank reapers adding 33% acc, damage, and penetration, your bazookas will be sniping shit like no tommorow. Put them in cover for 10% more acc, or add an officer for +30% total. Tank support just makes it even more sexy.

[Mister Schmidt]

By the way, when spouting nonsense about stats, a lot of stats have been changed for EiR.

And also, we don't say "CoH units" when referring to range and stuff, we just say 35 range, it's easier

[deadbolt]

[TheVolskinator]

Schmidt, what makes you any more statistically inclined than I am? EiR also advertised only minor stat changes; if you guys are fking around with stats for shits and giggles, you might as well tell the public strait up. If you think im spewing bs as you so curtly suggested, go in game, check out the infantry company tree, and do the math yourself. Honestly, you guys treat everyone from vcoh as if they were some braindead fucktard who spends his day trolling. Any of you guys can come back to vcoh and try me, since as from what I can tell, you guys consider my skill/intelligence equal to pond scum. If you beat me, fair nuff'. If not, dont complain about how gay Vcoh is because you arent used to it at all--guess what, welcome to my world and point of view @ EiR.

Defensiveness aside, I prefer spelling it out as a whole. Saying '35' could mean anything; "I was 35 from the guy." "Wait. 35 what? King Tiger lenghts?" "No, CoH units." "Ohhhhhhhhhh."

I think a lot of my issue comes from overstepping my bounds on confidence in game. ~70 popcap in vcoh is hard to shake; Im used to 2 Engies, 3-4 rifles, an m8 or two, and 2 shermans, plus ATGs or whatever, all on the field working in concert. I'm also used to the 57mm beating the stuffing out of everything that's not vetted; maybe schmitts correct (at least about changes (skirts being more effective). ATG crawl seems much more effective than tanks; I'll take a look at that.


Final point, why dont we all take a step back and not piss on eachother from great heights--our egos clearly dont work too well together; I've spent ages in coh in general, so I assume myself to be fairly knowledgeable; you guys have played EiR for ages, so you assume the same. Maybe all of us are right/wrong. I do, by the way, know my way around stats; I created an entire faction concept for the 'Ostheer' faction in the EF mod, with new weapons and a new infantry armor type in the mix. As of yet, none of it has been included, but most everyone who commented on it found it statistically sound ^^.

[RoyalHants]

Stats have been changed little apart from doc abilities etc those change things more but they are easy to keep track off

[Mister Schmidt]

Dude, calm down..

I'm just letting you know that not everything is the same.
What annoyed me slightly about your last post is that you were telling us all what stuff did, I was like...
Yeah we know?..

Anyway, vCoH is hella different from this. That's why basically everything you learnt in vCoH, other than basic stuff like using cover & stuff, is negated. We get a lot of people like you, Vermillion Hawk being another prime example, who get stuck in their vCoH ways and get pissed when it doesn't work, and refuse to adapt to the way EiRR plays. And I don't think I did complain about vCoH? I kinda like it, but meh.
Besides, I gave you some sound advice, if you're as experience at CoH as you claim you are, as long as you are WILLING to adapt, such as by reducing the size of your call ins, you will do well.

I didn't mean to come across as being a dick or whatnot, just you know, I speak my mind.

<3