I know ull kil me for that

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[Tymathee]

and it would be quite unfair to equalize it.

Amis = more damage because higher health axis squads
axis = more rof because of higher number allied squads.

axis have some excellent machine guns and i've seen the top gunner on panthers and p4 do quite well versus infantry, heck i never buy a panther without the hmg or a p4 but u might see me get a sherman without the 50 cal.

so i say leave it alone or make all hmgs 35 mu. heck, maybe make it come free with all tanks.

[chefarzt]

Wow Tym sometimes i wonder how u manage to  pull off all this brainfarts.

[DarkSoldierX]

Fuck. I calculated damage outputs yesterday but I forgot to post them.

But base M2HB DPS is around = 4.5

and MG42 is around = 6.5

BUT

MG42 does -25% dmg to inf soldier elite and airborne.

M2HB does 50% more dmg vs inf armour but -25 to heroric and normal damage to soldier.

I will redo base DPS calculations and post then post dps with some different armours included later today.

[chefarzt]

Guys stop number crunching and play the shit. The sherms mgs supress in not time and kill stuff while the mg on pz4s and and panthers is just a joke.

[NightRain]

Guys stop number crunching and play the shit. The sherms mgs supress in not time and kill stuff while the mg on pz4s and and panthers is just a joke.

Theres a reason why they are pop guns rofl. Sherman 50 cal can also damage light vehicles too 50% more damage vs infantry armor? Rofl...

[8thRifleRegiment]

i mena ffs, look at the halftrack 50cal, its fucking insane. If the HT 50cal rips the shit out of infantry, so does the sherman one.. .

and if what darksoldier said is correct, the allies 50cal has more of an advantage becuase you see more basic infantry vs heavy infantry, especially when your taking on a tank, id never send out my KCH at a sherman, id pull them back and pull up some volks mto take thier AI spot to cover my pak, and keep the kch back unless tthey are aboslouletly needed, or untill the sherman is gone

[LeoPhone]

haltrack 50 cal != sherman 50 cal

[Tymathee]

WM HT .50 Cal(s) >>> Sherman 50 cal anyday and it's free.

the sherman 50 cal only seems to suppress better because it has a larger clip so it can keep firing but in reality the wm 50 cal has a higher suppression rate but it fires in smaller but quicker bursts.

so it likes the difference between firing an m16 on burst fire mode and on automatic fire and the burst fire is putting out bullets quicker in the same amount of time.

but like i've said, in my experience the mg42 on top of wm tanks is just fine not as opposition but in actually using them .

Personally i think the major difference in how it looks comes from the power not of the gun on the tank but the support. Generally axis weapons will kill a single allied man faster than allied weapons will kill an axis because of health and axis weapons generally do more damage.

So you'll rarely see the suppression or damage output a wm tank puts out because either the gun on the tank is killing the squad to fast, there's an mg42 around, an lmg, etc that is also firing.

Also there's the fact that most wm tanks will not engage allied infantry at close range because of stickies, zooks, , rr's and brens while allied tanks will more often than not engage axis infantry at close range, thus heightening the effectiveness of the hmg on the tank unless it's PE. Short Range > Med or Long Range.

[DarkSoldierX]

Base Short Range 50 cal DPS = 6.31

Vs inf armour 50 cal DPS =  9.465
_________________________________
Base Short range MG42 DPS = 9.32

Vs inf armour MG42 DPS =  6.99

Vs Moving inf armour MG42 dps = 5.24

__________________________________

Results with differ depending on luck. This was used with median numbers.

There we go we have some basic numbers. As you can see the .50 is much better vs the basic enemy than the Mg42 is.


Although this is average DPS and doesnt show the full picture.
Both weapons have same incremental acc. at 1.05, but the mg42 targets larger squads increasing its dps slightly but still nowher near .50 cal levels.

.50 cal has slightly higher short range and a much larger search radius though

Now offtopic sorta.....

Terror Rolling Thunder make MG42 do base DPS of 16.32

[DarkSoldierX]

So what do people think, Axis top MG go down 10 mun?

[Tymathee]

no, because that last post was EEEEVIIIILLLL, it was post 666.

also because it would take 7.8 shots for wehr hmg to kill a rifle squad
6.3 for allied hmg to kill volks squad
and 8.4 for the hmg to kill a gren squad for an average of 7.35 which closely equals what it takes a wehr hmg to kill a rifle squad.

so i think they're fairly equal, and since on general allied players have to face higher health squads
(these are per man)
PE Inf = 80
Volks = 60
Gren = 80
Storms = 95
KCH = 90
Pio = 70
FJ = 60 (soldier armor)
Luft = 55

an average of 73.75 Health

While on the allied side you have
Rofl's = 55
Rangers = 65
Airborne = 70
Engies = 55
Mandos = 65
Inf Section = 65
Sappers = 60

an average of 62.14285714285714

so it's balanced.

[AmPM]

Do health per squad you noob.

[Tymathee]

Do health per squad you noob.

you can only kill one man at a time noob and my point is that axis have more health per man.

[panzerman]

don't forget elite/AB/heroic armour, those make a difference for alot of allied units.

[AmPM]

you can only kill one man at a time noob and my point is that axis have more health per man.

Don't forget that damage gets put on each guy in the cone noob. It does not hit 1 guy at at time.

[Tymathee]

don't forget elite/AB/heroic armour, those make a difference for alot of allied units.

yeah but there are no units like kch that have 95 health and elite armor, ab armor is only good while on move

Don't forget that damage gets put on each guy in the cone noob. It does not hit 1 guy at at time.

then squad health doesn't matter as the axis hmg has a higher incremental accuracy and about twice the normal accuracy (0.1 vs 0.2 and .25 vs .45 close) so in actuality you're making my point better than your own.

[DarkSoldierX]

Accord to Cohstats they has same inc acc. Are you saying they got it wrong? I am not trying to offend you just say yeah and il belive you, CoHstats cant be perfect.

And AB and INf armour is same vs Turret MG42.

Soldier and elite armour both get -25% acc(dont have to be moving to recieve bonus) and -25% recieved dmg like inf armour.

[Tymathee]

Accord to Cohstats they has same inc acc. Are you saying they got it wrong? I am not trying to offend you just say yeah and il belive you, CoHstats cant be perfect.

And AB and INf armour is same vs Turret MG42.

Soldier and elite armour both get -25% acc(dont have to be moving to recieve bonus) and -25% recieved dmg like inf armour.

i'm saying inc is higher cuz of higher squad sizes.

at medium/short range mg42 is .45 acc so that gives us
0.60304303828125 acc vs a basic rifle squad

at med/short the m2hb is .25 acc so that gives us
0.3038765625 acc vs a gren squad and
0.319070390625 vs a volks squad.

So i'm sure that really skews that dps.

[smurfORnot]

ok,so everyone sees that .50cal is stronger and better than wehr one,yet they cost same. But on other side we have Tym who is trying convince everyone that they are actually equal,probably in the end he will even convince himself that wehr one is actually stronger and needs price increase 

[Tymathee]

ok,so everyone sees that .50cal is stronger and better than wehr one,yet they cost same. But on other side we have Tym who is trying convince everyone that they are actually equal,probably in the end he will even convince himself that wehr one is actually stronger and needs price increase 

i'm just posting stats, you can't dispute those.