NightRain
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« on: May 12, 2011, 11:02:57 am » |
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I'll open this discussion with the similar way I started my earlier thread. However to follow the rules (and doing a little error by adding 2 similar things in the same thread)
M7 Priest
Hummel
These two mobile units are HIGHLY over priced comparing to immobile units. Those immobile units are: 25Pdr and 105mm.
25Pdr costs 360 manpower and 120 fuel. 9 Pool and costs 7 popcap to field.
105 costs 380 manpower and 160 fuel. 12 Pooö and costs 8 popcap to field.
Quite cheap in my opinnion. VERY CHEAP! However I do believe 25Pdr is justified to such low cost due to its shorter range.
Now lets compare these two Mobile Artillery units.
M7 Priest costs 465 Manpower and 300 fuel. 24 Pool and costs 10 popcap to field.
Note: M7 Priest's range is 175 Meters. That is 75M longer than 88mm's range.
Hummel costs 480 manpower and 320 fuel. 18 Pool and costs 10 popcap to field.
Now...really? Is M7 Priest justified to cost about 3x more than a 25Pdr? Should a hummel cost 3 times more than a 25Pdr? OR 2x more than a howizer?
I think not.
Mobile OR immobile they are put into one task. Bomb the enemy with indirect fire. Is the difference between mobility and immobility that huge thing that the cost will be 3x-2x more than a same unit type?
I understand that mobile unit can't be bombed with a V1, RA, Firestorm whatsoever offmap if they get in line of sight. HOWEVER! Mobile artillery can be destroyed with a bombing run or a Henschel run...so, I'll ignore offmap thing right here.
So dear EIRR community. Should Mobile artillery cost tons of more resources than a immobile one? Why having a hummel as PE is more punishing than giving? Why having a priest forces you to reduce your armor and support pool so that one won't pay PP from it?
I as well guarantee, that losing a immobile unit (25Pdr/105mm) is much less of a grief than losing a M7 Priest or a Hummel.
What does the community think about this?
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Because a forum post should be like a woman's skirt. Long enough to cover the subject material, but short enough to keep things interesting.
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Mister Schmidt
Lawmaker
 Posts: 5006
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2011, 11:07:02 am » |
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We've had this exact thread before. I cba to go find it, but it's definitely been brought up before.
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and 6th " Main Thing " is you have to Chant " hare krishna hare krishna krishna krishna hare hare hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare ".
"Seeing Bigdick in his full sado mask attire, David couldn't help but feel a tingle in his special place.."
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| NightRain
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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2011, 11:15:18 am » |
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We've had this exact thread before. I cba to go find it, but it's definitely been brought up before.
You mean, by me several months back? I know, this is exact copy paste from the damn thing with minor updates |
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| 8thRifleRegiment
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« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2011, 11:16:19 am » |
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hey speedy. look at the results of the last thread like this. if they didnt change it before and the talk about it wasent all that magical. why rehost it again, nothing will change -_- waste of a post
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 I will never forget the rage we enduced together  Ohh Good, AmPm can pay in Doubloons.
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Tymathee
Donator
 Posts: 9741
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« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2011, 11:18:07 am » |
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they cost more because of survivability. Because they're mobile they can get away
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"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"
Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
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| Poppi
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« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2011, 11:25:21 am » |
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well the thing about mobile arty is that it can be very abusive.
If u use it and deal lots of damage you become a target, but then you can relocate to another position. They can move into position, fire, retreat to safe spot, and repeat.
I use a Howi and usually i can only deal 1-2 arty calls before im victim of a cloaked shrek unit or a clown wagon full of shreks. Nothing i can really do.
For players that use Hummels or Priests, ive seen them have 2 of them on the field. So apparently they think they are worth the cost.
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brn4meplz
Misinformation Officer
 Posts: 6952
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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2011, 11:36:42 am » |
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Every time this topic comes up all it says to me is Immobile artillery is too cheap and needs a price increase. Rather then the reverse. Mobile Artillery has it's pricing for a reason. Survivability. How many times does a Priest get killed by a V1? Or a Hummel by a Lancaster for that matter? While the Mobility factor isn't seen as much of a bonus vs M10's or Puma's it lets these units easily escape slower infantry and target point Offmaps and even other indirect fire units.
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He thinks Tactics is a breath mint Wow I think that was the nicest thing brn ever posted!  the pussy of a prostitute is not tight enough for destroy a condom  |
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Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
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« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2011, 11:37:49 am » |
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i've seen 3 hummels on the field at once lol. but yeah, mobile arty can be awesome if used right. Hummel IMO is the best arty in the game because of its penetration and the flame rounds. i used to feel it was priest but everyone can see creeping barrage coming and it usually does nothing and then gives u a long cool down Every time this topic comes up all it says to me is Immobile artillery is too cheap and needs a price increase. Rather then the reverse. Mobile Artillery has it's pricing for a reason. Survivability. How many times does a Priest get killed by a V1? Or a Hummel by a Lancaster for that matter? While the Mobility factor isn't seen as much of a bonus vs M10's or Puma's it lets these units easily escape slower infantry and target point Offmaps and even other indirect fire units.
:Cry: I lost my vet 3 priest to a v1... |
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| NightRain
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« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2011, 12:06:31 pm » |
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If Stormies engage the M7 Priest, the Priest is pretty much death as it can not escape the second volley alive due to its slow speed either way.
Lets collect some of the points said out.
I lime Creeping Barrage. But damn as hell why to pay 3x more when I can have my Creeping barrage on my 25Pdr that is only 7 pop, 9 pool and 120 fuel? I see no point in it. Plus M7s 175m range is super, its like a nebelwerfer that fires good shells instead of piff burn rockets.
Tym said Mobile arty can be awsome, what can mobile arty do what immobile can't when they both do the exact same thing? Immobile one might not be as COOL as mobile one but being cool doesn't mean being useful. Priest and Hummel has to destroy far more than a immobile one too in order to gain back its cost and show its effectiveness.
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brn4meplz
Misinformation Officer
Posts: 6952
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« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2011, 01:09:09 pm » |
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So Creeping Barrage limited strictly to the Priest!
That is more balanced. Good job Night rain I'll look to add that for the next patch
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| NightRain
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« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2011, 01:35:02 pm » |
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So Creeping Barrage limited strictly to the Priest!
That is more balanced. Good job Night rain I'll look to add that for the next patch
A very Good find sir! Now I pay double T3s to get a Priest AND a Creeping! |
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| EliteGren
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« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2011, 01:37:59 pm » |
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You already do
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i prefer to no u
Don't knock it til uve tried it bitchface, this isn't anything like salads version. Besides u said a semois conversion would never work, now look that's the most played map, ohgodwhy.jpg r u map lead
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| NightRain
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« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2011, 01:52:24 pm » |
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You already do
Not really. if you don't get Priests but you take creepings you can use them with 25Pdrs. Plus Fire Support gives you a better bonus for 25Pdr (60s decrease in cooldown, priest gets only 30s) |
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| PonySlaystation
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« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2011, 02:41:49 pm » |
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I don't see the issue, if you don't like the Priest then just use the cheaper 25pdr.
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Sharks are not monsters Henley, they are cute, cuddly and misunderstood. They love humans. sometimes they love TOO much. They love people so much that sometimes their kisses separate people into two flailing pieces which are consumed by other sharks in a frenzy of peace and joy.
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| smurfORnot
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« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2011, 02:46:40 pm » |
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If Stormies engage the M7 Priest, the Priest is pretty much death as it can not escape the second volley alive due to its slow speed either way. so are probably storms after they kill it. |
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| NightRain
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« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2011, 04:32:04 pm » |
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so are probably storms after they kill it.
Your point is nullified by the fact that it does not belong to the point. The storms survival is not the point at hand. The point at hand is the fact that the mobile arty WILL die if ambushed by storms much like Immobile will. With the difference being that loosing that 25pdr or 105 is less hurting than loosing that hummel or M7 Priest. The issue here is the fact that Mobile arty is too expensive for what it is really worth |
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| 8thRifleRegiment
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« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2011, 04:39:05 pm » |
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why was the post revived if the devs didnt see a point in it before
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AmPM
Community Mapper
 Posts: 7978
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« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2011, 04:58:14 pm » |
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Your point is nullified by the fact that it does not belong to the point. The storms survival is not the point at hand. The point at hand is the fact that the mobile arty WILL die if ambushed by storms much like Immobile will. With the difference being that loosing that 25pdr or 105 is less hurting than loosing that hummel or M7 Priest. The issue here is the fact that Mobile arty is too expensive for what it is really worth
The point is, that you pay extra for the ability to constantly change firing positions. Is it worth it? I don't know, if our maps were bigger and we were doing Attack/Defend, definitely. Because you would need to be able to move the artillery forward to keep covering your troops. Also, you are fairly immune to most offmaps, and can reposition to avoid enemy pushes at your artillery. |
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| 8thRifleRegiment
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« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2011, 05:03:04 pm » |
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yes, if used effectvitly the abliity to move your arty around is crucial to most stragegies
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Malgoroth
Donator
Posts: 960
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« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2011, 05:12:55 pm » |
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You pay for the mobility which is a huge bonus. You don't have to worry about offmaps like you do if you have a 105 or 25lbr. That by itself is a gigantic (huge, massive) bonus. On my terror, my V1's can neutralize up to 2 105s with just a click of a button (not 25lbrs... something that needs serious looking into imho...). Priests and Hummels are spared most of that danger (yes, there's bombing runs and henschel runs but those require a specific doctrine whereas almost every doctrine has an offmap that kills stationary arty, so priests/hummels have fewer to worry about). Can the mobile arty get ransacked by tets/pumas/storms/schreck HTs? Yes. But so can stationary arty. And just like with stationary arty that nastiness can be avoided with the right precautions and defenses. Offmaps however can not be avoided. It's a gigantic boost to survivability you pay for. Take it and rejoice, or don't.
The Calliope with urban survival kit is the best mobile artillery btw. Much easier to nail blobs with a barrage, penetrates armor easily (actual penetration and easier to hit them with it), and can be used as an on-the-spot tank as well. I fuckin' love main gun Calliopes. God I hate the allies.
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