Doctrine Unlock Suggestions (v1.6): With Changelog

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[TheVolskinator]

READ!!: I'm still in the process of finishing and updating the Document & corresponding suggestions. Any glaring errors in typing or spelling; feel free to point those out. As always, constructive C&C is welcome. The doctrinal unlock suggestions and so on are in the attached PDF document.

v1.6 is up! Here's the list of suggested units (name only) in order of appearance. New units for this version of the PDF will be italicized and marked with *'s.

U.S.
 - M5 Stuart "Rhino"
 - Rocketteer Squad
 - M1919A4 HMG Fire Support Team
 - 82nd Airborne Assault Team
 - Combat Technicians
 - Combat Team
 - M4A3E8(76)WVSS Sherman "Easy Eight"
 - *Mountaineer Skirmishers* (Credit to Vermillion_Hawk for original concept)

Commonwealth
 - 1st Highlander Battalion Assault Squad (Credit to Mister Schmidt for original concept)
 - "Wasp" Universal Carrier

Wehrmacht
 - Schwere Baupioniertrupp
 - Icon Correction regarding Volksgrenadiers and Grenadiers
 - Sturmpionieren Trupp
 - Oberfeldwebel
 - Volkssturm

Panzer Elite
 - Falshirmjäger Scharfschützen
 - *Glider-Borne Luftlandpionieren* (Credit to Audemed for original concept)

All Factions
 - Combat Medic

New Upgrade Concepts
 - Fix Bayonets!
 - Black Prince
 - Grenade Volley

Doctrine Specialization Change Suggestions
U.S.
 - [Inf] Rifle Training inclusion
 - [Inf] New ability for American Officers

Wehrmacht
 - [Blitz] Removal of Dual Shrecked Stormtroopers
 - [Blitz] Changes to HEAT Rounds T3

Panzer Elite
 - [Scorched Earth] Change or Removal of Panzer Grenadier HMG42 Teams
 - [Scorched Earth] Panzer Pioneers issue
 - [Luftwaffe] Crete Veterans T4 changes
 - [Luftwaffe] New Building: *Hidden Supplies* (Credit to Smokaz for original concept)

[Mister Schmidt]

Stuart has more health than an m10?

With HEAVY crush?!

Oh right I see that Culin Cutter thing, but I still think heavy crush is a bit much on something that small :/

[TheVolskinator]

"V 1.0". Moar revisions pending and that was a mis-type I was just going to edit into the description; should be 375 HP, not 445.

Culin Cutter > hedgerows.

[Mister Schmidt]

Yeah I edited.

And lol at that AT team, that is some epic shit right there, I'm playing Infantry always if these get put in

[TheVolskinator]

BUMPY! Read first post's description!!

[lionel23]

I'm going to guess this is a JOKE thread, because no way as hell this should come into the game.

The AT infantry team would totally negate the use of rangers.  Why pay 80 MU for 2 zooks on expensive infantry when you can get 2 zooks on a 4-man squad for FREE?  And CHEAPER than rangers too!  There is a reason why riflemen in Armor had access to only 1 zook in a 6 man squad.. to prevent a spam of special weapons.  In a 25 pop callin... I can squeeze 6 squads of 4-man... giving me 12 zooks and 12 M1 garands.  You also get a steal on the mines, 1 super AT mine and 2 amazing mines, as well as camo and TT construction... sticky bombs too overpowered on the AT squad... that was an improv weapon used by squads that lacked proper AT.  Also, PASSIVELY they get bazooka ambush with FALLS ambush bonus?  So now they are alpha strike teams?  A single, 4-man team capable of doing massive damage to vehicles and tanks now for little hit on an allied company?  Also add to that the incredibly STUPID Vet 2 bonus - +20 STICKY RANGE!  My god, you can sticky tanks way outside their view range at that!  Do you not realize how far that is?  That's 1/3rd and AT gun's normal range.. added onto the range of the sticky bomb.  You're talking a screen away at that rate.

Also, on the Rhino Stuart... you made a light tank cheaper than an armor utility car, do you not realize that?  It is cheaper resource wise, cheaper pop wise, and it can crush humans and has heavy crush, has WP shot (which was removed for good reason), P4 armor (causing weird axis-axis damage tables... look at the Jumbo which I still advocate should go back to Pershing armor and not the weird panther_skirt armor which makes axis cry its OP when it was perfectly counterable before).  Also, do you realize that the greyhound skirt would give the Rhino MORE HEALTH than a sherman?  For an amazing light tank that can destroy all infantry and is hard to counter, seems like an OP unit that Infantry really doesn't need.  They already have Rangers (which I think the zook TR nerf was too much for them) and the Jumbo, which is a sturdy, slow tank that isn't meant for AT.  As most people say (I'm not one of them), US has ATGs w/ AP rounds to counter tanks and everyone has access to them.  Work with it or find another way, not add something that totally outclasses the entire army and enemy factions... and again it seems this is an anti-infantry tank, yet your argument for it seems to be the US Inf lack AT.... so what role is this Rhino stuart suppose to fill?  Does it have a 76mm upgun on it too on top of all this crazy stuff?

[Scotzmen]

Dude start with your units being to weak, then you can expand on some of the key points the unit is sopposed to enrol. Plus people will be alot nicer if its UP rather than OP.


Limit there upgrades/abilities to 1 or 2, 3 AT MOST! most units only have that amount of abilities ingame. Some even have none!

Try not to go to over board with the units aswell. Make them fall in line with other units, but with a specific specialisation.

Other then that i love the ideas. Especially the M5 Staurt. Although id love to see this baby rolling alongside my Scottish infantry!

[lionel23]

Dude start with your units being to weak, then you can expand on some of the key points the unit is sopposed to enrol. Plus people will be alot nicer if its UP rather than OP.


Limit there upgrades/abilities to 1 or 2, 3 AT MOST! most units only have that amount of abilities ingame. Some even have none!

Try not to go to over board with the units aswell. Make them fall in line with other units, but with a specific specialisation.

Other then that i love the ideas. Especially the M5 Staurt. Although id love to see this baby rolling alongside my Scottish infantry!

+1 Scotty!

[TheVolskinator]

Lionel, try pulling your head out of your ass for once. I'm editing the document right now and trust me, the AT team is much more expensive. Nor does the Rhino have more HP then an M10. Jesus people, l2read -.- (WP round = 240 second cooldown. I hardly think 1 of those every 2 minutes is going to break the game. And the PaK still penetrates the P4 easily, dont go overboard with the 'axis gonna cry OP OP!' shite. Only a moderate chance that the stuart would be able to actually blunt shells, its not going to lolrush the damn thing.

EDIT: Stuart cost raised to 280 MP, 80 FU from 240 MP, 75 FU. Removing 'Sandbags' upgrade. AT team zook stat suggestion has been revised, now costs 265 MP, 95 MU. 'Ambush' package uprade which would surely come with that still costs 70 MU, and ofc theres stickies (225 MU per AT team.) Currently working on the .30 cal team.

[Mister Schmidt]

Where are my trenchclearers?!?

[MittinsKittens]

and my Stuart Crocs?

[TheVolskinator]

Finishing Ami units >> moving onto CW units (TC's included) >> WM >> PE. Hold ye olde horses. Ang lolno stuart crocs. Holy shit that makes the Rhino look like nothing.

[Mister Schmidt]

TrenchClearers next kthxbai

[MittinsKittens]

I seriously don't see nothing wrong with the Stuart Croc xD
Its basically a light tank with a Flamerthrower instead of a main gun. If anything, you would rather want to face this then a Churchill Croc because at least you can kill it

[TheVolskinator]

TC's: 1 HP/man. 3x Engie Greaseguns. Movespeed .000000000000000000001. Balanced :3.

[Scotzmen]

Lawl. Dude i was only trying to help. Dont be an idiot and try to be funny with sarcasm.

You posted this up for opinions, you got mine. Which is probarly the nicest your going to get.

Im just saying man, if you start to see a trend in peoples opinions, then maybe they are all telling the truth?

[Mister Schmidt]

I'm serious Volsk, I expect a statted TC unit within the hour.

[TheVolskinator]

Scot, my sarcasm wasnt backed with any apprehension at all. Was being a dry SOB @ schmidt. I HAVE revised the document, im just rushing to FINISH it before I post it and the changes.

[Scotzmen]

I apoligise to you then 

Anyway, pretty damn good ideas, keep them coming!

[lionel23]

Lionel, try pulling your head out of your ass for once. I'm editing the document right now and trust me, the AT team is much more expensive. Nor does the Rhino have more HP then an M10. Jesus people, l2read -.- (WP round = 240 second cooldown. I hardly think 1 of those every 2 minutes is going to break the game. And the PaK still penetrates the P4 easily, dont go overboard with the 'axis gonna cry OP OP!' shite. Only a moderate chance that the stuart would be able to actually blunt shells, its not going to lolrush the damn thing.

EDIT: Stuart cost raised to 280 MP, 80 FU from 240 MP, 75 FU. Removing 'Sandbags' upgrade. AT team zook stat suggestion has been revised, now costs 265 MP, 95 MU. 'Ambush' package uprade which would surely come with that still costs 70 MU, and ofc theres stickies (225 MU per AT team.) Currently working on the .30 cal team.

You're asking for feedback on what was a clearly OP and overpowered unit, and you're telling me to pull MY head out of my ass? You had a fucking light tank at 355 HP with sandbag option (which if you didn't know DOUBLES the HP of a unit).  So 355x2 = 710, which is more HP than a Sherman or M10.  So yeah dude, it's clearly overpowered.  Also, you now only equalized the Stuart to a Greyhound, has to go higher.  Why would I want to take a greyhound when I can get a Stuart tank that has human and heavy crush for the same price and cheaper pop.  You're undervaluing the unit.  The unit min needs to be 8-9 pop for what it can do.

And WP is still too powerful, even at 240 seconds.  I bring out 7 of these stuarts and I can chain stun an axis super heavy or vetted heavy (tiger/panther) for example, you'll have axis crying in no time.  That was the reason it was removed in that when vehicles are already capped very low due to fuel, and obviously you can get more light vehicles than anything else, the WP shot needs to go.  Or double the price of the unit or seperate the ability away from the unit and make it cost high like 80 MU for WP shot.

In regards to the armor, stop using axis armor, that causes huge balance issues in regards to weapons table, use an existing allied unit like.. you know the british actually HAVE a stuart, use that armor table, it's common sense.  Stupid suggestions about giving allied units axis armor tables does weird shit (ie. the slugger originally had stug armor, which had a 300% modifer from fausts... so it always blew up when hit by a faust hit, for example).  Look at the Pak vs Jumbo which a lot of axis cry about and I see their point in that paks weren't made to fight panther SKIRTED armor.  Just revert to stuart armor for a stuart, I see no reason why it has to have better armor than a vanilla stuart.