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[WE] Puma vs M8
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Topic: [WE] Puma vs M8 (Read 25936 times)
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cloud234
EIR Veteran
Posts: 363
[WE] Puma vs M8
«
on:
May 27, 2011, 07:58:36 am »
Having played around with a M8 + M10 company. I noticed that the axis cannot employ a similar strategy in using a vehicle (i.e. M8) to circle around and kill ATGs while using a specialist unit to take out tanks or gain dominance.
Shouldn't Axis be given this ability as well? Pumas are nice at 6pop but it really can't kill stuff in a pinch. I'd like it to kill ATGs after 2 rounds of full firing at an ATG and for 1 burst (before reload) to at least kill 1 or even 2 man on an ATG. 1 Burst to kill half a rifle squad if its in open.
Perhaps somewhere along the lines of 50Cal HT killing ability. Pop can go back up etc.
Right now its more of a... stick it against inf with no AT only unit. Annoying but silly. They can run to an ATG and still have more than half a squad left.
The low pop does make for easy spaming though... not sure if thats good.
Logged
NightRain
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3908
Re: [WE] Puma vs M8
«
Reply #1 on:
May 27, 2011, 08:05:56 am »
+1 increase cost with increased performance. Decrease price and keep the same.
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Quote from: Unkn0wn on June 05, 2011, 04:01:40 am
Because a forum post should be like a woman's skirt. Long enough to cover the subject material, but short enough to keep things interesting.
smurfORnot
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4715
Re: [WE] Puma vs M8
«
Reply #2 on:
May 27, 2011, 09:19:48 am »
Quote
The low pop does make for easy spaming though... not sure if thats good
you can spam them and do what? 4 puma start,WOW,scary
while on other hand 3m8 start is fairly viable.
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Jodomar
EIR Veteran
Posts: 734
Re: [WE] Puma vs M8
«
Reply #3 on:
May 27, 2011, 09:48:56 am »
Make a puma that has the auto fire cannon but give it more splash and allow it to pen light vehicles and tanks from the rear. Up the cost/pop a bit and call it a day.
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Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
Re: [WE] Puma vs M8
«
Reply #4 on:
May 27, 2011, 10:54:27 am »
Axis have other strategies that decrew atgs, or out right destroy them much better than allies can.
Allies have fast response tank destroyers, axis have long range tank destroyers and heavy tanks.
Logged
Quote from: nikomas on October 04, 2012, 09:26:33 pm
"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"
Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
LeoPhone
Honoured Member
Posts: 0
Re: [WE] Puma vs M8
«
Reply #5 on:
May 27, 2011, 11:41:47 am »
Tym is pretty much spot on.
Axis get panthers, allies can get more powerful light vehicles.
If anything is gonna change about the puma it will be price.
pro tip: the puma is the name of the 50mm variant
the 20mm we are talking about here is called Sdkfz 234 Armored Car
Logged
Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
Re: [WE] Puma vs M8
«
Reply #6 on:
May 27, 2011, 11:42:54 am »
How about we just call it Puma and Upgun Puma? As in, the names everybody in the CoH community has called them ever since the units' inception?
Logged
Poppi
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1080
Re: [WE] Puma vs M8
«
Reply #7 on:
May 27, 2011, 12:45:22 pm »
Ostwind own ATG from the sides. What you talking about. And puma is fast enough to go around. Just cant be going straight into a ATG and expect to circle it. And puma can own an ATG crew in a few seconds.
As tym said there are plenty of other ways to decrew allies ATG with armor.
u ran a m10, m8 company. U should know Attack from the rear with speed is like the only advantage US has against tanks. Brits do have the firefly for all companies but US only has pershing for armor co. So to assume bring a pershing is a bit unfair. Those are the only 2 tanks that dont need to flank. Everything else depends on runnning circles.
Feel like the more you diverse and buff axis armor it actually causes a HUGE unforeseen dent in the balance in the game. Even with price increase. If units stats increased 10% here 10% there i would gladly take a 5-10% price increase.
«
Last Edit: May 27, 2011, 12:55:00 pm by Poppi
»
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DarkSoldierX
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3015
Re: [WE] Puma vs M8
«
Reply #8 on:
May 27, 2011, 02:20:10 pm »
I agree, Axis for the most part have weaker LV's but guess what, they are cheaper. (Even tho stag mg got nerf)
Your supposed to have some distinction between the factions, and axis arnt supposed to have those very very good light vehicles and still have superior effectiveness heavies.
If you want super puma, give the US T29-T30 which would be on par with the overall effectiveness of a KT, with some differences.
Logged
Quote from: nugnugx on June 03, 2011, 11:42:22 am
two words
atgs and fireflies
Looks who's butthurt
Quote from: BigDick on January 08, 2012, 06:47:44 am
*waiting* 4 DarkSoldierNoobiX pops up to prove how much shit the T17 is penetrating KTs back and Jagd front and how much better the ac/puma is penetrating m10 rear
cloud234
EIR Veteran
Posts: 363
Re: [WE] Puma vs M8
«
Reply #9 on:
May 27, 2011, 06:39:50 pm »
I'm suggesting this to provide more avenues of gameplay for Axis actually... so they have more styles of playing.
Puma has always had decent Anti-Inf capabilities prior to recent versions of EiRR. At 6 pop and its current state, even the Stuart tank is better.
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Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
Re: [WE] Puma vs M8
«
Reply #10 on:
May 27, 2011, 07:07:50 pm »
but axis have the most options, especially WM of all doctrines. So lv and td spam are the two things wm can't do, it's really not needed. we have enuff "mirror" abilities, we dont need others.
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Poppi
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1080
Re: [WE] Puma vs M8
«
Reply #11 on:
May 27, 2011, 08:03:14 pm »
Quote from: cloud234 on May 27, 2011, 06:39:50 pm
I'm suggesting this to provide more avenues of gameplay for Axis actually... so they have more styles of playing.
Puma has always had decent Anti-Inf capabilities prior to recent versions of EiRR. At 6 pop and its current state, even the Stuart tank is better.
im really all for all sorts of avenues of gameplay. I really am. I like to try new stuff, constantly. But due to COH level of non reality u cant.
When playing its not how i want to play the game, its how im going to verse my opponent. I think infantry and mortars is cool. But what if they bring tigers or KT or Jagds. Better drop how i want to play and start bringing ATGs and alot, well there goes my points to buy the company i want. U can be like some players and just play 4v4 games and be that support duchebag.
Theres a very fine line of balance in this game when it comes to vehicles. Very fine. Barely there. Actually i think its unfair line already but thats me.
If WM gets fast vehicle that goes pew pew US deserves a monster heavy tank for an armor company and all the companies have the option of a pershing.
Logged
Katusha
EIR Veteran
Posts: 989
Re: [WE] Puma vs M8
«
Reply #12 on:
May 27, 2011, 08:54:41 pm »
Quote from: Poppi on May 27, 2011, 08:03:14 pm
im really all for all sorts of avenues of gameplay. I really am. I like to try new stuff, constantly. But due to COH level of non reality u cant.
When playing its not how i want to play the game, its how im going to verse my opponent. I think infantry and mortars is cool. But what if they bring tigers or KT or Jagds. Better drop how i want to play and start bringing ATGs and alot, well there goes my points to buy the company i want. U can be like some players and just play 4v4 games and be that support duchebag.
Theres a very fine line of balance in this game when it comes to vehicles. Very fine. Barely there. Actually i think its unfair line already but thats me.
If WM gets fast vehicle that goes pew pew US deserves a monster heavy tank for an armor company and all the companies have the option of a pershing.
Good sir, have you extensively played any axis faction, and I say
extensively
, before jumping to such bold conclusions that allies are at such a grave disadvantage?
The reason you are forced to bring ATG's is because you think the only way to win is to counter what they bring. Try to bring the initiative from your side, and force them to bring out counters for your choices. I know tigers and KT's seem overwhelming, but there's a way to deal with everything.
After all they are a bunch of resources in one unit, which means if you can take it out or disable it before it does too much damage, you're golden.
I don't mean to sound like a prick, but you seem to have this notion that Axis are too strong, and I think if you extensively explore Axis you will see its weaknesses as well.
Logged
Poppi
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1080
Re: [WE] Puma vs M8
«
Reply #13 on:
May 27, 2011, 09:41:31 pm »
Quote from: ararat1993 on May 27, 2011, 08:54:41 pm
Good sir, have you extensively played any axis faction, and I say
extensively
, before jumping to such bold conclusions that allies are at such a grave disadvantage?
The reason you are forced to bring ATG's is because you think the only way to win is to counter what they bring. Try to bring the initiative from your side, and force them to bring out counters for your choices. I know tigers and KT's seem overwhelming, but there's a way to deal with everything.
After all they are a bunch of resources in one unit, which means if you can take it out or disable it before it does too much damage, you're golden.
I don't mean to sound like a prick, but you seem to have this notion that Axis are too strong, and I think if you extensively explore Axis you will see its weaknesses as well.
i have played axis alot but not in EIRR just in vCOH and COHO. Im a US fanboy. mostly Inf. Bc im obsessed with tweaking around with them. You are right though. I react i dont pro-act. Meaning i dont take the initiative. I spend points in ATG bc alot of times allies are "oh fuck here is a tiger or KT". (Jagdtiger is just too much to even mention and i cant believe thats in the game).
So im open to new ideas or strategies that a US infantry player (no pershing available) can use to take the initiative and maybe make axis player think twice about using Tigers or KT.
(to be fair i killed plenty of vet Tigers and KT wtih ATG and m10s but mostly with the help of others. But it was react not proact)
Logged
panzerman
EIR Veteran
Posts: 689
Re: [WE] Puma vs M8
«
Reply #14 on:
May 27, 2011, 10:24:26 pm »
m8's are also another reason P4's are useless.
Logged
BigDick
Guest
Re: [WE] Puma vs M8
«
Reply #15 on:
May 28, 2011, 02:10:02 am »
poopi are u sure u know how this game works?
i somehow read from your posts that you want to be able to counter tigers with things that are not meant to be the counter (mortars etc.) because thats the way you like to play
a strategy game works that you or your enemy plays a strat and that the opponent pulls out the best counters
there is no one in a disadvantage...if someone pulls out a heavy and you get the counters on the field his unit become useless
to the topic:
pumas are only good when its the upgun puma und you know to play one of these double T3 RCA cromwellspamers
the 20mm puma is next to useless because it kills nothing if playing against decent players
it pop is pretty low and its price is not that high but it is just a shit unit don't use it and your good
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PonySlaystation
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4136
Re: [WE] Puma vs M8
«
Reply #16 on:
May 28, 2011, 03:11:46 am »
Both pumas are quite useless for their high pricing, I think we can all agree on that. It's not a matter of discussion.
So either the performance is boosted, preferably with doctrines or the cost is reduced to about 200 manpower and 50 fuel to match it's current effectiveness.
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Sharks are not monsters Henley, they are cute, cuddly and misunderstood. They love humans. sometimes they love TOO much. They love people so much that sometimes their kisses separate people into two flailing pieces which are consumed by other sharks in a frenzy of peace and joy.
Poppi
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1080
Re: [WE] Puma vs M8
«
Reply #17 on:
May 28, 2011, 04:22:08 am »
Quote from: BigDick on May 28, 2011, 02:10:02 am
poopi are u sure u know how this game works?
i somehow read from your posts that you want to be able to counter tigers with things that are not meant to be the counter (mortars etc.) because thats the way you like to play
a strategy game works that you or your enemy plays a strat and that the opponent pulls out the best counters
there is no one in a disadvantage...if someone pulls out a heavy and you get the counters on the field his unit become useless
no no no not saying that at all. Dont worry about it.
Logged
DarkSoldierX
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3015
Re: [WE] Puma vs M8
«
Reply #18 on:
May 28, 2011, 07:43:24 am »
Puma is absolutely fine, he does NOT need increased effectiveness with increased price. Axis are supposed to have weaker LV's, and the puma kills infantry perfectly ok.
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panzerman
EIR Veteran
Posts: 689
Re: [WE] Puma vs M8
«
Reply #19 on:
May 28, 2011, 08:11:37 am »
Quote from: DarkSoldierX on May 28, 2011, 07:43:24 am
Puma is absolutely fine, he does NOT need increased effectiveness with increased price. Axis are supposed to have weaker LV's, and the puma kills infantry perfectly ok.
replays or doesnt happen
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