[WE] Puma vs M8

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[cloud234]

Having played around with a M8 + M10 company. I noticed that the axis cannot employ a similar strategy in using a vehicle (i.e. M8) to circle around and kill ATGs while using a specialist unit to take out tanks or gain dominance.

Shouldn't Axis be given this ability as well? Pumas are nice at 6pop but it really can't kill stuff in a pinch. I'd like it to kill ATGs after 2 rounds of full firing at an ATG and for 1 burst (before reload) to at least kill 1 or even 2 man on an ATG. 1 Burst to kill half a rifle squad if its in open.

Perhaps somewhere along the lines of 50Cal HT killing ability. Pop can go back up etc.

Right now its more of a... stick it against inf with no AT only unit. Annoying but silly. They can run to an ATG and still have more than half a squad left.

The low pop does make for easy spaming though... not sure if thats good.

[NightRain]

+1 increase cost with increased performance. Decrease price and keep the same.

[smurfORnot]

The low pop does make for easy spaming though... not sure if thats good

you can spam them and do what? 4 puma start,WOW,scary  while on other hand 3m8 start is fairly viable.

[Jodomar]

Make a puma that has the auto fire cannon but give it more splash and allow it to pen light vehicles and tanks from the rear. Up the cost/pop a bit and call it a day.

[Tymathee]

Axis have other strategies that decrew atgs, or out right destroy them much better than allies can.

Allies have fast response tank destroyers, axis have long range tank destroyers and heavy tanks.

[LeoPhone]

Tym is pretty much spot on.
Axis get panthers, allies can get more powerful light vehicles.

If anything is gonna change about the puma it will be price.

pro tip: the puma is the name of the 50mm variant
the 20mm we are talking about here is called Sdkfz 234 Armored Car

[Mysthalin]

How about we just call it Puma and Upgun Puma? As in, the names everybody in the CoH community has called them ever since the units' inception?

[Poppi]

Ostwind own ATG from the sides. What you talking about. And puma is fast enough to go around. Just cant be going straight into a ATG and expect to circle it. And puma can own an ATG crew in a few seconds.

As tym said there are plenty of other ways to decrew allies ATG with armor.

u ran a m10, m8 company. U should know Attack from the rear with speed is like the only advantage US has against tanks. Brits do have the firefly for all companies but US only has pershing for armor co. So to assume bring a pershing is a bit unfair. Those are the only 2 tanks that dont need to flank. Everything else depends on runnning circles.

Feel like the more you diverse and buff axis armor it actually causes a HUGE unforeseen dent in the balance in the game. Even with price increase. If units stats increased 10% here 10% there i would gladly take a 5-10% price increase.  

[DarkSoldierX]

I agree, Axis for the most part have weaker LV's but guess what, they are cheaper. (Even tho stag mg got nerf)
 
Your supposed to have some distinction between the factions, and axis arnt supposed to have those very very good light vehicles and still have superior effectiveness heavies.

If you want super puma, give the US T29-T30 which would be on par with the overall effectiveness of a KT, with some differences.

[cloud234]

I'm suggesting this to provide more avenues of gameplay for Axis actually... so they have more styles of playing.

Puma has always had decent Anti-Inf capabilities prior to recent versions of EiRR. At 6 pop and its current state, even the Stuart tank is better.

[Tymathee]

but axis have the most options, especially WM of all doctrines. So lv and td spam are the two things wm can't do, it's really not needed. we have enuff "mirror" abilities, we dont need others.

[Poppi]

I'm suggesting this to provide more avenues of gameplay for Axis actually... so they have more styles of playing.

Puma has always had decent Anti-Inf capabilities prior to recent versions of EiRR. At 6 pop and its current state, even the Stuart tank is better.

im really all for all sorts of avenues of gameplay. I really am. I like to try new stuff, constantly. But due to COH level of non reality u cant.
When playing its not how i want to play the game, its how im going to verse my opponent. I think infantry and mortars is cool. But what if they bring tigers or KT or Jagds. Better drop how i want to play and start bringing ATGs and alot, well there goes my points to buy the company i want. U can be like some players and just play 4v4 games and be that support duchebag.

Theres a very fine line of balance in this game when it comes to vehicles. Very fine. Barely there. Actually i think its unfair line already but thats me.
If WM gets  fast vehicle that goes pew pew US deserves a monster heavy tank for an armor company and all the companies have the option of a pershing.

[Katusha]

im really all for all sorts of avenues of gameplay. I really am. I like to try new stuff, constantly. But due to COH level of non reality u cant.
When playing its not how i want to play the game, its how im going to verse my opponent. I think infantry and mortars is cool. But what if they bring tigers or KT or Jagds. Better drop how i want to play and start bringing ATGs and alot, well there goes my points to buy the company i want. U can be like some players and just play 4v4 games and be that support duchebag.

Theres a very fine line of balance in this game when it comes to vehicles. Very fine. Barely there. Actually i think its unfair line already but thats me.
If WM gets  fast vehicle that goes pew pew US deserves a monster heavy tank for an armor company and all the companies have the option of a pershing.

Good sir, have you extensively played any axis faction, and I say extensively, before jumping to such bold conclusions that allies are at such a grave disadvantage?

The reason you are forced to bring ATG's is because you think the only way to win is to counter what they bring. Try to bring the initiative from your side, and force them to bring out counters for your choices. I know tigers and KT's seem overwhelming, but there's a way to deal with everything.

After all they are a bunch of resources in one unit, which means if you can take it out or disable it before it does too much damage, you're golden.

I don't mean to sound like a prick, but you seem to have this notion that Axis are too strong, and I think if you extensively explore Axis you will see its weaknesses as well.

[Poppi]

Good sir, have you extensively played any axis faction, and I say extensively, before jumping to such bold conclusions that allies are at such a grave disadvantage?

The reason you are forced to bring ATG's is because you think the only way to win is to counter what they bring. Try to bring the initiative from your side, and force them to bring out counters for your choices. I know tigers and KT's seem overwhelming, but there's a way to deal with everything.

After all they are a bunch of resources in one unit, which means if you can take it out or disable it before it does too much damage, you're golden.

I don't mean to sound like a prick, but you seem to have this notion that Axis are too strong, and I think if you extensively explore Axis you will see its weaknesses as well.

i have played axis alot but not in EIRR just in vCOH and COHO. Im a US fanboy. mostly Inf. Bc im obsessed with tweaking around with them. You are right though. I react i dont pro-act. Meaning i dont take the initiative. I spend points in ATG bc alot of times allies are "oh fuck here is a tiger or KT". (Jagdtiger is just too much to even mention and i cant believe thats in the game).

So im open to new ideas or strategies that a US infantry player (no pershing available) can use to take the initiative and maybe make axis player think twice about using Tigers or KT. 

(to be fair i killed plenty of vet Tigers and KT wtih ATG and m10s but mostly with the help of others. But it was react not proact)

[panzerman]

m8's are also another reason P4's are useless.

[BigDick]

poopi are u sure u know how this game works?

i somehow read from your posts that you want to be able to counter tigers with things that are not meant to be the counter (mortars etc.) because thats the way you like to play

a strategy game works that you or your enemy plays a strat and that the opponent pulls out the best counters

there is no one in a disadvantage...if someone pulls out a heavy and you get the counters on the field his unit become useless

to the topic:

pumas are only good when its the upgun puma und you know to play one of these double T3 RCA cromwellspamers

the 20mm puma is next to useless because it kills nothing if playing against decent players
it pop is pretty low and its price is not that high but it is just a shit unit don't use it and your good

[PonySlaystation]

Both pumas are quite useless for their high pricing, I think we can all agree on that. It's not a matter of discussion.

So either the performance is boosted, preferably with doctrines or the cost is reduced to about 200 manpower and 50 fuel to match it's current effectiveness.

[Poppi]

poopi are u sure u know how this game works?

i somehow read from your posts that you want to be able to counter tigers with things that are not meant to be the counter (mortars etc.) because thats the way you like to play

a strategy game works that you or your enemy plays a strat and that the opponent pulls out the best counters

there is no one in a disadvantage...if someone pulls out a heavy and you get the counters on the field his unit become useless

no no no not saying that at all. Dont worry about it.

[DarkSoldierX]

Puma is absolutely fine, he does NOT need increased effectiveness with increased price. Axis are supposed to have weaker LV's, and the puma kills infantry perfectly ok.

[panzerman]

Puma is absolutely fine, he does NOT need increased effectiveness with increased price. Axis are supposed to have weaker LV's, and the puma kills infantry perfectly ok.

replays or doesnt happen