Sherman Jumbo

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[NightRain]

this tank is basically a Kt tread break it or mine it and its a dead tank with out awesome support

You do realize that BARs and 57mms are the best support for such a cheap pop tank?

[Mysthalin]

that would also set the 57mm penetration vs jumbo to:

0.08892

(and rear penetration to 0.2 or something)

Much less of a problem than a 0.22 penetrating pak.

Not to mention that then just fixing the 57mm vs Churchil would be a FAR easier task(equalise it to 57mm vs Tiger).

[BigDick]

why not just change it back to pershing armor? thats the best armor allies have

paks can counter it when its 2 or more...shreks have a hard time
weapon tables are not broken according pershing armor

[Unkn0wn]

I'm surprised no one has brought up raising its population to 14, since it has pretty much the field presence of any other heavy tank... (which are 14 - panther, AT specialisation, 15 - Generalist heavy tank, 16 - Jagdpanther superheavy, AT specialisation and 18 - Generalist Superheavy)

There's very little justification in it remaining at 13 pop though. The unit's pop, since introduced several months ago, has never been reviewed so we should not take its current price and pop for granted. Unlike many of the other units, these 'reward units' are still relatively new to the game and have not undergone the heavy balancing many other units have undergone in the last few years.

[PonySlaystation]

I'm surprised no one has brought up raising its population to 14, since it has pretty much the field presence of any other heavy tank... (which are 14 - panther, AT specialisation, 15 - Generalist heavy tank, 16 - Jagdpanther superheavy, AT specialisation and 18 - Generalist Superheavy)

I did bring this up. People were too busy discussion stats. Anyways, I support your idea.

I thought the problem was it's low pop. It's only 13 pop compared to a PzIV's 12.

[Unkn0wn]

Sorry, must've missed it then.
Anyway, will bring this up somewhere.

[BigDick]

i don't think that the one pop makes such a difference

the most broken part of jumbo is its armor type (target tables) vs pak and 50mm HT

that even with thats fixed the jumbo is much more pop effective than a regular sherman/p4 is an other thing

but currently its way to pop/cost/counter effective

and when people come and tell to flank it i just can say that its turning rate need to be massively turned down since its 32 that means >94% of a regular sherman compared to something like marder that can be flanked with only 24 turning rate

[Tymathee]

dont understand why the armor is that big of a deal, allied players have had to deal with shots deflecting off axis tanks for a long time and now here's one, that btw is a t3 unlock and costs as much as a Panther yet is no where near as fast. It has a 75mm gun...and stugs rape this thing heck stuh's get a 100% pen against it.

Yeah its annoying to see all those bounced shots but the thing is, Axis are used to seeing a sherman go down in a flurry of long range and/or high damage AT weaponry and this is bugging you guys. I generally just avoid these things, or just bring on a panther, pak40, tiger, stick a schreck in a building (high arc helps get more side and rear shots) there are so many options to take down a jumbo for axis it's not even funny.

While if the Axis bring out say a Panther at the low end, it's either an ATG, hope u get shots in butt with zook, hope u can circle stafe it with m-10, which never happens because there's always another type of AT, some schreck or pak nearby. If it's a tiger oh forget it, your atg is toast cuz u know, unlike jumbos' tigers can take out atgs straight on, same with KT's and jagds. So yeah...give the allies a super heavy like the axis get and see how fast they crap OP.

[smurfORnot]

except 57 doesnt have problem penetrating panther..go with tiger 1v1 against 57,most of the time you will loose 50% health easily...

[Mysthalin]

costs as much as a Panther

Wrong...

[BigDick]

dont understand why the armor is that big of a deal, allied players have had to deal with shots deflecting off axis tanks for a long time and now here's one, that btw is a t3 unlock and costs as much as a Panther yet is no where near as fast. It has a 75mm gun...and stugs rape this thing heck stuh's get a 100% pen against it.

Yeah its annoying to see all those bounced shots but the thing is, Axis are used to seeing a sherman go down in a flurry of long range and/or high damage AT weaponry and this is bugging you guys. I generally just avoid these things, or just bring on a panther, pak40, tiger, stick a schreck in a building (high arc helps get more side and rear shots) there are so many options to take down a jumbo for axis it's not even funny.

While if the Axis bring out say a Panther at the low end, it's either an ATG, hope u get shots in butt with zook, hope u can circle stafe it with m-10, which never happens because there's always another type of AT, some schreck or pak nearby. If it's a tiger oh forget it, your atg is toast cuz u know, unlike jumbos' tigers can take out atgs straight on, same with KT's and jagds. So yeah...give the allies a super heavy like the axis get and see how fast they crap OP.

since i don't want to repeat myself over and over again i already linked my thread about evaluating the armor of jumbo

but tym fails at reading so i quote myself

to put that into numbers

the at57mm got 145% of the basic penetration vs a tiger compared to pak50 vs a jumbo

if you add ap rounds its 730% better penetration vs the tiger compared to pak50 vs jumbo

and furthermore you fight 2 tigers or 1 KT or 1 Jagd with that much superior AT weapons compared to 3 jumbos in a infantry company

[DarkSoldierX]

So do we all agree on churchill 0.65 pen modifier atleast?

Oh and bigdick, what pak do you mean? You say pak50, but do you mean pak40? If so pak40 is better than a 57mm  vs jumbo.

Im sure you mean pak38, the normal non doctrinal pak.

[BigDick]

no we don't agree on 0.65pen modifier and churchill armor because that would not nerf the current jumbo armor

and with pak50 i talk about 50mm pak obviously since i missed the patch where a 75mm pak was available to all pe and wehrmacht doctrines

[DarkSoldierX]

no we don't agree on 0.65pen modifier and churchill armor because that would not nerf the current jumbo armor

and with pak50 i talk about 50mm pak obviously since i missed the patch where a 75mm pak was available to all pe and wehrmacht doctrines

Did you not read when it increases pak38 penetration vs jumbo by 41.8%?

Where did I say or you say in any previous post that you were talking about non-specific doc counters?

Oh yeah thats right you have selective reading, and you don't know how to form a post with proper numbers and information.

[BigDick]

dude when it comes to balancing a unit every faction and doctrine should have in some way a cost effective way to deal with it

when you don't agree on that way how to balance something than gtfo and stop spreading your bullshit

ps: no i don't think that 29% possibility to penetrate the jumbo longrange with 0.65pen modifier of churchil armor is in any kind a relyable form to penetrate a heavier medium tank that is cheaper than a panther without possibility to get AP rounds to increase that to 125%

[smurfORnot]

give pak's and 50mm AP rounds,lol,job done ...watch allies scream in terror

[COHCommando]

bigdick in the Chateaux forum brang up another thing getting jumbos means that you can get a m10 or none at all your giving up other sometimes better cost effective items to get the jumbo

[skaffa]

dude when it comes to balancing a unit every faction and doctrine should have in some way a cost effective way to deal with it

Flank it and it goes down super fast. Ive taken out 3 of Rikis Jumbos that way in 1 game.

[BigDick]

dunno but i can afford 3 jumbos and a howi with T1 fuel advantage that every company can have...

if you spend your adv. selections into fuel it is easy possible to have 3 jumbos and an m10

i mean thats with every company that you have to make the choice what you want to get since resources are not unlimited

doesn't mean jumbo isn't broken only because there could be some scenarios where a m10 would have been a better choice to spend fuel on

[BigDick]

Flank it and it goes down super fast. Ive taken out 3 of Rikis Jumbos that way in 1 game.

can't do that with a competent player

and yeah riki...i think you remember the game with him where i told you afterwards about that pro-tankmicro driving with his churchill croc with its back towards the enemy right into your howitzer barrage.....