For Those Who Wants More Variety to Allies.

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[Scotzmen]

Volks new unit PDF file.

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=19274.0

Becuase i can, thats why.

[AmPM]

Except STG, G43, and Shreck PG's are all used differently. Standard rifles are used the same as bar rifles are used the same as nade rifles.

Really? You suppress and assault positions with normal Rifles? You use BARs to quickly remove HMGs from buildings? Damn, no wonder you fails.

[Audemed]

Seriously? It's like the difference between vanilla PG's, PG's with incendiary nades, and PG's with at nades. Yes, you use them for different tasks, but they're not different units. God you're stupid.

[skaffa]

US Armor doc needs a 5 pop handheld AT unit, a Riflesquad that can buy 2x RR as a T2 unlock.

Armor also needs proper inf healing (every doctrine needs it).

Then I would play Armor.

[BigDick]

they already got...its called boysAT thats more than enough to support ur vehicles to take out marders and 50mm

everything else can be handled by other stuff

[skaffa]

yes US alrdy got everything, but thats not the discussion here, we want more

I want to play armour with good shermans/m8s as AI, and atg + rr as AT, not fuck around with dumbass boys at which aint gonna do shit vs tanks.

[BigDick]

vs. tanks u use ATGs if u skip tankdestroyers....and tanks are usually no threat because they usually expensive and rare or very limited in range...

other than marders thats the only vehicles that can come in numbers on long range to cross ur armor masterplan using massive vehicles 

[3rdCondor]

Those squads are all THE SAME OTHER THAN THEIR WEAPONS. They are not unique and beautiful units. It's like if you made Grenadiers with LMG and Schrek separate units and called it more variety.

The only thing I could think of adding to Allies would be 2x BAR for Rangers, Garands for AB and the removal of AB Rifles, and the .30cal LMG for Rifles just for lolz.

I'm cool with the bars as long as there is not suppression. That kind of armor would be insane.

EDIT: And grenadier elite armor needs to go away (or be changed) as well.

[deadbolt]

[NightRain]

I'm fairly glad that some people understood the vision I laid in the first post- and didn't go into Balance vs balance discussion which I found a tad disappointing.

Some people of course nailed it perfectly down.

 Allied builds are often not only repeative but also very boring. The variety- is low and the doctrines doesn't help to it at all.

Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing Royal Mando doctrine have no tommies but six man Commando squads with brens and no smoke and assault mandos with stens and smoke etc etc

The Airborne riflemen are interesting in general but they'd need different weapons. 30 cal is excellent for it and I'd say it'd be worth a shot.

Cloaked infantry is always interesting but doing that means copying falls and stormtroopers. While cloaking doc ability  wouldn't copy either of them but it'd copy Defensive tier 4.

In the end, I must say. The allies have all they need. I mean they have all the stuff they had in the war. Tommies, Riflemen, commandos, rangers, airborne.........they have it all. They have everything. That is the reason why allies don't have so many new units because they are hard to come by as all of 'em are already IN! Only weapon choices are good, like suggested by someone.

[Tymathee]

Tym, in the real world a Pershing is a medium tank too, whats your point?

As far as super heavies like the KT and Jadg, I hear it's best to kill them with ATGs you know, from farther away than they can shoot, since they both EXCEL at AT work it's probably a bad idea to rush them with, you know, tanks.

You can take your Panther, I'll take a 57mm and an M18. Guess which one wins.

Unupgraded Sherman is better for AI than unupgraded P4. Upgraded 76mm Sherman wtf pwns the P4 and the STuG.

we're talking tank to tank, no upgrades dude, why are you bringing in atg's? you always bring in extra crap when you discuss balance.

and lmao an upgraded sherman isn't better ai than an unupgraded p4. they both do the same damage, have the same acc but the p4 has a quicker reload and has to deal with tiring at lower health men. so where a single p4 shot will take out a single engineer, rifle, ranger, airborne and the splash can kill dudes too. a sherman firing at axis infantry may have to deal with smaller squads but have to deal with more singular health thus it may not kill anybody on the first shot.

Nevertheless. Axis still have the better toys. Just because the allies have specialized units that can deal with them, doesn't make any one better. If you take one of each british and american tank and pair it against one of each wm and pe tank, guess who wins?

[Groundfire]

Do you guys have any idea in which the capacity of new units shall be introduced into the game? I thought i've gone through this already.

[AmPM]

we're talking tank to tank, no upgrades dude, why are you bringing in atg's? you always bring in extra crap when you discuss balance.

and lmao an upgraded sherman isn't better ai than an unupgraded p4. they both do the same damage, have the same acc but the p4 has a quicker reload and has to deal with tiring at lower health men. so where a single p4 shot will take out a single engineer, rifle, ranger, airborne and the splash can kill dudes too. a sherman firing at axis infantry may have to deal with smaller squads but have to deal with more singular health thus it may not kill anybody on the first shot.

Nevertheless. Axis still have the better toys. Just because the allies have specialized units that can deal with them, doesn't make any one better. If you take one of each british and american tank and pair it against one of each wm and pe tank, guess who wins?

Tym, read the bold part. That IS BALANCE you fuckin idiot. A balanced faction takes into account what support there is, what units can combine to do what, etc. Just because you can't fight a KT with a Sherman does not make either one better or worse.

Take a Tiger, is it better or worse than an M18? A single M18 can kill a Tiger all day long, no issues. Give the Tiger a PAK in support and it can destroy an M18 and a 57mm.

Wow! That's FUCKING CRAZY, considering unit balance in the CONTEXT OF THEIR GOD DAMNED FUCKING FACTION.

On top of that, the 76mm Upgrade COMPLETELY CHANGES the role of the tank. It is essentially 2 units. Upgrades are part of the balance too. Crazy talk.

[Tymathee]

yeah, i'm not even going to discuss anything with u anymore if you're going to rage and call me names dude. chill out.

[deadbolt]

[Tymathee]

I'm fairly glad that some people understood the vision I laid in the first post- and didn't go into Balance vs balance discussion which I found a tad disappointing.

Some people of course nailed it perfectly down.

 Allied builds are often not only repeative but also very boring. The variety- is low and the doctrines doesn't help to it at all.

Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing Royal Mando doctrine have no tommies but six man Commando squads with brens and no smoke and assault mandos with stens and smoke etc etc

The Airborne riflemen are interesting in general but they'd need different weapons. 30 cal is excellent for it and I'd say it'd be worth a shot.

Cloaked infantry is always interesting but doing that means copying falls and stormtroopers. While cloaking doc ability  wouldn't copy either of them but it'd copy Defensive tier 4.

In the end, I must say. The allies have all they need. I mean they have all the stuff they had in the war. Tommies, Riflemen, commandos, rangers, airborne.........they have it all. They have everything. That is the reason why allies don't have so many new units because they are hard to come by as all of 'em are already IN! Only weapon choices are good, like suggested by someone.

yeah, maybe not new stuff but larger variety.

the allies unlike the germans tended to use the same model for different stuff and just upgrade it, rather than reinvent the wheel. so where the germans wanted a bigger gun, they created teh panther, the allies just took existing chassis and put a bigger gun on it.

btw...priest shoudl be on US, it was barely used by the brits, they used the bishop, which is awesome, too bad we don't have the model for it.

also i feel oen issue that some of the new units have been presenting is rather than go along with the philosophy of the doctrine or side, they seem to fill holes. like for def, the leig and pak40 fit perfectly, but teh stummel for th is imo an odd inclusion into a company thats supposed to specialize in taking out armor.

[deadbolt]

[Tymathee]

blah

[3rdCondor]

tank on tank warfare is gay

[BigDick]

but teh stummel for th is imo an odd inclusion into a company thats supposed to specialize in taking out armor.

+1 stummel is op

and yeah tankhunter should be only allowed to purchase the following units

- hetzer
- jagdpanther
- marder
- 50mm HT
- tankbuster (while tankbuster are borderline OP on tankhunters cos they got 3 k98....maybe limit it to doubleshrek tankbusters only)