Scotzmen's new unit idea thread.

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[Scotzmen]

Alright lads, lets see if this works

What do you think this mod needs in the way of units and upgrades?  
What are the gaps in the factions that need patched over?

And im not saying patching over the races weaknesses either btw.

Considering Volksinators new unit PDF got torn apart, and VermillionHawks unit thread got fucked over, i thought i'd let you lot come up with the ideas. Then present them here.

Sigh, i really can't fucking spell.

[Vermillion_Hawk]

*prepares for AmPM's inevitable post*

[LeoPhone]

What are the gaps in the fractions that need patched over?

Gap Fraction - Gap fraction is the chance of not hitting a leaf when casting a ray through a vegetation canopy.

[AmPM]

Not worth trolling yet.

I'm sure it will be when some stupid fucking ideas are posted though.

Leave gaps in the factions, or it all becomes the same shit.

[8thRifleRegiment]

Not worth trolling yet.

I'm sure it will be when some stupid fucking ideas are posted though.

Leave gaps in the factions, or it all becomes the same shit.

too late. all the doctrine are aimed at achiveing the same goal with differant units. Its very boring, no doctrine is themed anymore and every faction has a standard build, give or take the doctrinal units. Nothing is themed anymore

[Malgoroth]

Americans need something else for faction-wide infantry besides just riflemen. Of course.. you can't just go throwing new infantry into the game all willy-nilly. Americans don't need a tougher mainline infantry unit like an American version of Grenadiers. That could skew balance horribly, but some variety couldn't hurt.

I would propose something along the lines of a light harassment/scouting type of infantry squad. For now we'll call them 'Riflemen scouts' or 'Point men' or something. They'd be a 4 man rifle squad with weaker rifles (maybe ranger rifles or engineer grease guns) that can cloak in cover (no ambush bonus). When cloaked their site range increases to be the same as a jeep. They could purchase grenades, sprint, and perhaps (with an unlock for one of the doctrines) buy a single mine.

Another way to give Americans some variety could come from nerfing BARs. You could give the Americans a BAR squad that would be 4 men with 2 BARs with suppression fire that would cost the same manpower, 90 munis, 5 pop and 5 infantry pool. Regular riflemen would retain the ability to buy BARs at 70 munis but without suppression fire. It would also provide a visual aid in identifying which squad can suppress you and which can't that simply giving two DIFFERENT BAR upgrades to rifle squads wouldn't.

These wouldn't cover any weaknesses, but would spice up the American arsenal a bit.

Wehrmacht needs a Tiger Ace. Specifically... I need a Tiger Ace.

I would suggest giving the Panzer II to Wehr, but that would be covering their weakness in the LV department.

PE, and Brits don't need any more units. They're good.

Is this troll-worthy AmPM?

[AmPM]

I'm pretty sure that idea was covered in a previous retard related thread.

Need moar shitty ideas to troll. Nobody on for Blood Bowl right now.

[Vermillion_Hawk]

You know AmPM, there's a kind of natural law that runs through all sorts of things in life, like evolution and philology, and it is that which does not adapt and evolve, dies.

[Malgoroth]

I'm pretty sure that idea was covered in a previous retard related thread.

Need moar shitty ideas to troll. Nobody on for Blood Bowl right now.

Which idea? Or are you just posting for the sake of posting? 

Nobody can argue against giving the Tiger Ace to Wehrmacht. It is absolutely, totally balanced. Not OP at all. It'd be perfectly in keeping with the game. 

[AmPM]

You know AmPM, there's a kind of natural law that runs through all sorts of things in life, like evolution and philology, and it is that which does not adapt and evolve, dies.

This assumes that evolution is always a positive trait.

Just because people suck at the game does not mean there need to be new units to cover their inadequacies.

[Tymathee]

allies have a tougher varient of riflemen, they're called tommys, rangers and airborne.

[tank130]

too late. all the doctrine are aimed at achiveing the same goal with differant units. Its very boring, no doctrine is themed anymore and every faction has a standard build, give or take the doctrinal units. Nothing is themed anymore

This^^ is why you are not, nor shall ever be, on the balance team.
If your opinion is true, then we should remove all the doctrines and it would make no difference to the game. It would sure reduce the amount of work the Dev team has to do to create it and balance it.

Sure rifle, let's just get rid of docs all together then. Thanks for the great idea.

[Spartan_Marine88]

allies have a tougher varient of riflemen, they're called tommys, rangers and airborne.

1. I believe by allies he was referring to US primarily

2. Rangers and AB are not mainline, they are elite troops. He said mainline hence the Gren reference, now if he said like KCH...

You know AmPM, there's a kind of natural law that runs through all sorts of things in life, like evolution and philology, and it is that which does not adapt and evolve, dies.

This is not true

Shark

[DarkSoldierX]

allies have a tougher varient of riflemen, they're called tommys, rangers and airborne.

I think they want something that has a nilla weapon better than that.

[TheVolskinator]

Scotz mentioned my PDF, but other then 8th and Riki, the PDF itself doesnt seem to have been trolled at all tbh. I threw the link to it in my sig for a reason; the 'Combat Team' is more or less a tougher version of riflemen (for a cost), and the 'Mountaineer Skirmishers' are pretty much exactly what Mal mentioned--only difference being the skirmishers have thompsons and 40 HP/man, and that VH came up with them--and you guys took a giant shit all over that. Mal suggests almost the same thing and its kk notroll. Can we remove Le Bias against myself and VH?

Americans have NO tough mainline infantry. The only thing keeping riflemen from getting facerolled by the tide of german infantry is the abuse (or just use) of SF. Sticking SF on a seperate squad might prove to be a good idea; maybe an AB .30 LMG-armed squad?

I'm not going to suggest anything new because, frankly, I've given up thinking about this sort of thing at all. Even if one sits on an idea for a week or two, even a month, certain members on this forum (cough8thandrikianddarkcough) will rip it apart and call it poorly thought out and badly made--and then the idea crops up later from someone else, maybe even then, and everyone throws their hats in the air and cheers till' their faces turn blue. Its really not worth my time anymore. Other then responding to the OP with "lul nothing to troll here", take the moral high ground and either A) Post an idea for a new unit or B) Dont bother posting.

Something that might be able to alpha-strike axis armor for le americans might be nice...germans get plenty of choices for that, americans...not so much.

[jackmccrack]

make Rangers non-doctrinal

[RikiRude]

This^^ is why you are not, nor shall ever be, on the balance team.
If your opinion is true, then we should remove all the doctrines and it would make no difference to the game. It would sure reduce the amount of work the Dev team has to do to create it and balance it.

Sure rifle, let's just get rid of docs all together then. Thanks for the great idea.

So true, my infantry, armor, and AB coys are all quite different. in fact both versions of my infantry and armor companies are pretty different. but yes in the end most coys are the same in the fact that, US will always have some 57s, ap rounds and m10s.

my duel t3 armor has loads of crocs, my hvap had all m10s, rifles atgs, my USK had 2x pershings and a calli and loads of rifles atgs, my AB has loads of m10s, rrs, and quads, my dual T3 infantry has loads of rangers and m10s, and my operation overlord infantry had a shit ton of BARs and jumbos.

i think that's pretty varied imo.

[8thRifleRegiment]

Yes, tank i see myself writing the words.
'lets remove all of the doctrines'

No, im just simply stating the variety of strategies in the mod has dwindled down to about two or three functional builds for each faction give or take doctrinal units.
There is no problem with this, im just saying many of the doctrines all aim at achieving the same goal. As i remember from one of your previous posts.

Each doctrine has the three lines

Mobility
Attack
Defence

Now if every doctrine created goes by these rules, i understand creating some redundancy is almost unavoidable becuase you can only have soo many ideas to implement. But in RE for example, The love child of Lightning war and Rolling thunder- Offensive Maneuvers.

But, in all this i must say, the new doctrines that are set to release look to be quite interesting and unique, the current ones are fun, but a little bland and repetative (not counting RE). As the counters to common gimmicks are always the same, and the variety of units if quite small, especially for the americans i understand in the old eirr these units were removed for the sake of balance, but thse units added flare to the faction,made you want to play as the americans, nowadays its, "yay lemme pick americans where my rangers with smgs get wtf roflpwned by moving cloak super soldiers, or my only option for a basic infantry is LOL winbutton rifleman.im just saying the functional ways to play EiRR have gotten alot smaller and certain factions needs more variety in units to spice things up a few examples if i may

Infantry Doctrine- Rangers become 5 man (5pop) 260mp and can purchse x2 BARs for 70 munitions (no supression fire) There pool value would also go down to almost match rifleman. This would create a very valid "tougher" basic infantry option for the american player who wants to have only rangers for infantry, rather then stacking as many rifleman as you can fit with and watching them get owned by ranger grens. These days with all the heavy assault infantry running around from the axis, making rangers have a valid medium range option seems necesscary.

Armor Doctrine- Will add later, off to work now.



 Nowhere did i say lets remove them all. And yes, thank you for making me even more sure id never end up on the balance team, i cannt imagine the horrors which live in there

[skaffa]

Seeing as vanilla rifles dont really have any combat value in the game, as they can only really beat unupgraded volks or pgs 2 units which you hardly see, and you need to give them upgrades in order to be useful I wouldnt mind seeing some more variety in the US infantry department, doesnt have to be a unit that does lots of dmg but just something thats a bit stronger platform than the standard rifleman. (5 man ranger squad, 5pop, with BARs comes to mind as a reward unit because you should only be able to have a few)

[AmPM]

Seeing as vanilla rifles dont really have any combat value in the game, as they can only really beat unupgraded volks or pgs 2 units which you hardly see, and you need to give them upgrades in order to be useful I wouldnt mind seeing some more variety in the US infantry department, doesnt have to be a unit that does lots of dmg but just something thats a bit stronger platform than the standard rifleman. (5 man ranger squad, 5pop, with BARs comes to mind as a reward unit because you should only be able to have a few)

Soo...Vanilla Rifles beat any other unupgraded base infantry unit other than Grens. They can beat Grens up close.

They also beat any UPGRADED Infantry unit in the game with their upgrades.

Riflemen are really fine as is. I think that AB and Rangers should have some actual weapon options (AB Garands + 1 BAR maybe; Rangers with 2 BAR; no SF on either).