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[TheIcelandicManiac]

Sence all of you know of the "recent" buff to the T17 and from its Completely useless status to what it is now needs to change, yes it was The most useless tank before its buff but with it now it can snipe anything in its path and is just utter bullshit for its price and usefulness(Phase armor it seems and great speed), no other AntiInf LV can match it power and and with its current status it needs either a nerf or a price increase for being fast as it is and small hitbox it outscores the Ost in many ways.



All you guys know the Old commando doctrine and its Democharge spam and its quite annoyance but here is the deal, the +3m to Demos blast radius is just complete and utter bullshit due to its faqt it is able to blow up units far outside houses and with its massive damage it can destroy tanks with ease(for only 60 mun that is quite amazing) and even better when it's placed in houses you can't fire at them even when the house is destroyed, Some of you may say "They enabled Sweeping on them so stop Dilly Dallying and get rid of them that way" but as you guys may know they most often have more than 4-6 demos so even tough you can swipe those 6 demos(or 3 buys enabling you too have  if user has Raf support for it grants +1 demo so you have 12 demos for 6 squads of commandos)for their loss to the user but most of the time they just blow it up before they are swiped killing the sweeper and forcing you too call in another one.



Bundle nades are all the rage now a days or atleast they were once but as you may recall the bottom t4 BattleHardend but It grants not only storms and grens Elite armor but also +1 Grenade, Medkit, Faust and the infamous BundleNade.
Some might say that bundles are not that much of a problem with some micro but with the bottom T4 you are granted 40 free mun and if you by any chance have a vet2 storm squad you get not only 2 bundles but 3 so you can creep around bundling everything around you and causing havoc amongst the enemy.
The point is for its short fuse and massive radius granting a free bundle for a t4 seems short of an overkill and promoting spam for in my company i have been able too get 17 bundlenades(1 vet2 squad).


Focus Fire is Overkill and i think it applies to the whole crew not only the MG42


If any balance in this mod is suppose too be achieved we need to take a look at the T4s and what exactly needs to be nerfed for spam like the Demos, Bundles and T17s are something you guys really need to look into.

[aeroblade56]

I Have have only used commando  charges once due to the fact if commandos on the field most people avoid houses (which is good) but  only ive killed 1 and a half squad due to hugging.

[Poppi]

there was a t17 buff recently? I used them about 2 months ago. Did alright at best. Good for sniping weakened units. Pathetic on KCH. I liked the long range, but it wasnt doing 1 hit kill shots.  Unless there was a buff i missed out on? Most people agreed for its FU price just get a M8 b/c shitty against any type of vehicle or armor. Im a fan of T17 too. Sometimes wow thats one hell of a shot other times you swear the crew is crossed eye.

[Demon767]

you cant minesweep demos man

Minersweeper trololols over to the demo and attempts to disarm it

demo goes BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! due to manual explosion

troll face.jpg

[puddin]

60 MU? 

Really, For a non moving Goliath? 

Hell a Goliath can force units off without ever Exploding and it can kill an M8 in 1 shot. 

Demos are only good if soemone walks by, And that Teir 4?  Yea... You give up Red Devils or Enigma to get it, Sooo.... Your giving up +20% accurancy and -15% recieved accuracy to comandos and tets, and stants and stuarts...

Thats a hell of alot to give up for 1 extra nade or demo... 

[aeroblade56]

 T17 are inconsistent. I don't bring em cause the Ostwind makes em look like crap. Sure it can dodge doesn't mater when it gets 2 schreked  by storms. U can achieve greater results with pumas. I wasn't aware that t17 takes 7+ rear shots to kill a half track.

[EliteGren]

T17s are supposed to be very good at AI because they don't do shit vs vehicles, and that's why most people prefer an M8. Have you seen one trying to kill a halftrack? Pathetic

[hans]

T17s are supposed to be very good at AI because they don't do shit vs vehicles, and that's why most people prefer an M8. Have you seen one trying to kill a halftrack? Pathetic

they dont do shit vs vehicles?

i loled hard, get t17s with hvap and see whats going on

[EliteGren]

Okay, if we're gonna go into theory crafting where your player happens to just have the right T4 at the right time:

I lol at you if you use T17s instead of M8s when you have hvap. HVAP M8 > HVAP T17

Have you seen T17 penetration vs Pumas? Or even halftracks. kthxbye

HVAP: Medium penetration increase on a unit that already has shit penetration = no significant increase at all.
2 HVAP m8s can seriously troll a p4, even 2 without it can deal quite a bit of damage to it.

Meanwhile in T17land:
bounce, bounce, bounce...

[DarkSoldierX]

they dont do shit vs vehicles?

i loled hard, get t17s with hvap and see whats going on

You must be joking.

T17 chance to penetrate marder front at medium range -
37.5%

Oh daaaaayyyyymmnnnn!!! Thats some serious firepower there!

Not to mention t17 does half damage against pretty much all tanks.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

The bloddy problome aint that T17s cant kill bloddy Tanks but it kills zreck troopers and dodges Paks every single time when fired at.

[EliteGren]

We aren't arguing why the T17 can't kill vehicles/tanks, but rather how it keeps the unit balanced.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

How is it balanced if it can be spammed in masses like the GMC and not get hit by allmost anything?
Should i go spam Strummels or pak36s just to counter other spam?

[EliteGren]

Put 2 big penis pumas into your company vs T17s. There you go, you can't lose that fight unless you are a comatose patient.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

I would love to do that but the pumas actually dont ever hit it unless you are useing an offier supervision.

But still i was fighting against smokazez spam of it and nomatter how many shots i fired at them they never hit, i have been using pak36 to counter them with some succsess but then they just bring something heavyer than an paper tank and i lose it.

[hans]

Put 2 big penis pumas into your company vs T17s. There you go, you can't lose that fight unless you are a comatose patient.

new axis super weapon

[EliteGren]

They don't have to necessarily kill or hurt them to be effective, the thing is that the T17 can't do anything to pumas and it will scare them off. Your infantry and paks will be thankful

[TheIcelandicManiac]

How so?
If my anti T17 unit cant hit it why should it be scared?
this is like using an upgunned Hotch to counter M8s for if the hotch wont ever hit the bloddy thing and the m8s allways pen the hotch what is the point being scared about?
You just run into it and kill it before it will actually hit you or just use your support to keep it away.

[EliteGren]

because your comparison is off. Unlike the m8 and hotchkiss scenario, the t17 will never penetrate your upgunned puma while yours will do so 100% if it hits, and it WILL hit a t17 occasionally and take off a good chunk off it's health. A good T17 user won't ever be in range of an upgunned puma if he wants to get the most use out of his unit.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Well i will try that then but from my prevous experiments with that unit against m8 and Staghound spam it will fail horribly.

The problome aint that it cant move but with the t2 you are able to blow up anything from p4s that are too close to the house and you can place them anywhere.

also wth are you talking about the t4 not being useful?
not only do you get +1 to grenade and demo but you also get -75% to your callin timer(i don't know if it actually works tough sence i rarely used gliders to begin with) but allso +100 health making shooting them down a pain in the ass.
Also they dont get autotargeted so you have to painfully Superzoom into houses every time making you vulnerable on the battlefield while so is happening.