[wher] Tanks

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[Spartan_Marine88]

Just an idle thought

I on the odd occasion here talks about how the sherman upgun is unfair since it pretty much guarantees the death of a p4 while still being a rape machine to infantry. So hears my suggestion (i have no idea if this would be a good or bad idea) AP (2 uses) rounds for the P4, give it increased penetration +damage for 10 seconds or so. Maybe make it cost 50 mun.


On the flip side maybe give the Panther an purchasable AP like ability except make have increased accuracy + splash for 10 seconds or so, with a smiliar 50 mun cost.

[pqumsieh]

That's a terrible idea for a number of reasons. Mainly, you are making a unit lose its main weakness which totally breaks the overall design of the unit. Regardless of whether it's on a timed ability or not, with the way the game is played that won't be a significan factor. Units need weaknesses to keep them inline with the gameplay.

[aeroblade56]

Thats a terrible idea. i thought this was a totally balanced mod?. if we gave a p4 AP rounds on top of all blitzkriegs toy schrek storms, blitzkrieg,heat rounds panzer aces. even one shot with a ap panther would be devistating. with its longer range and armor it would kite a pershing so hard with ap rounds.

[AmPM]

Thats a terrible idea. i thought this was a totally balanced mod?. if we gave a TD HVAP on top of all Armors toy vehicle buffs, double repairs and assault engies. even one shot with a HVAP Hellcat/M10 would be devistating. with its longer range and speed it would kite a Tiger so hard with HVAP rounds.

See what I did there.

[Demon767]

seems like the only suggestions coming out of the player base is giving AP abilities to weapons...

1st was Zooks

think there was another example.....

now this XD

[Spartan_Marine88]

seems like the only suggestions coming out of the player base is giving AP abilities to weapons...

1st was Zooks

think there was another example.....

now this XD

Its really the only way to give options that i can't think of that doesn't give a unit a passive buff, which often can be way to powerful.

That comment was to the people that thought original TR was too powerful and nerfed rangers into the most useless unit on the battlefield

+Demon i just love 'ammo types' as options. Even if its simple i just love games that give me options (even if its a slender buff)

Thats a terrible idea. i thought this was a totally balanced mod?. if we gave a p4 AP rounds on top of all blitzkriegs toy schrek storms, blitzkrieg,heat rounds panzer aces. even one shot with a ap panther would be devistating. with its longer range and armor it would kite a pershing so hard with ap rounds.

Sweet, Magua/Colossus/Schappy/Aeroblade aka the biggest dodger/whiner currently active doesn't like it? Idea Validated



Also to note, Ap rounds would work wonders with the pop based WC design

[jackmccrack]

I don't see why my Sherman Upgun can't beat the crap out of a P4 since I'm paying for the upgrade.

[smurfORnot]

I don't see why my Sherman Upgun can't beat the crap out of a P4 since I'm paying for the upgrade.

because p4 also pays for skirt's,so price is kinda 'even' but p4 still looses.

[Tymathee]

but a non skirted p4 beats a non upgun sherman. so it's even'

Upgun = better vs tanks, worse vs infantry
skirts = defense mainly against hand held at and -10% incoming from allied tanks.

tbh, a piv can still beat an upgun sherman, it still does its full damage when it penetrates and it has a higher rof, but still. to whine that a p4 loses vs an upgrade thats supposed to beat it is ridiculous. thats like whining that a flamer engie beat ur kch, that's what its supposed to do.

[NightRain]

THe point is that P4 is still costs more than a M4 Sherman while performes worse than a Sherman

[hans]

why do u u still look at single units? for gods sake lol

p4 + atg rapes upgunned sherman DOT

its true that the sherman would beat the p4 upgunned, but sherman upgunned is still not as good as the p4 in killing inf!

[BigDick]

rofl that can become fun 

why do u u still look at single units? for gods sake lol

p4 + atg rapes upgunned sherman DOT

and an atg + an sherman (upgunned or nonupgunned) rape a p4

its true that the sherman would beat the p4 upgunned, but sherman upgunned is still not as good as the p4 in killing inf!

but the p4 is not as good killing inf as the 75mm sherman


your turn 

[DarkSoldierX]

but the p4 is not as good killing inf as the 75mm sherman


your turn 

Ok.

The P4 beats 75mm sherman the majority of the time.

Stock P4 is much better in the anti tank department, sporting much higher penetration and slightly better reload.

The 76mm on the other hand looses its anti infantry advantage over the P4.

So I think its balanced as is.

P4 AT > Sherman 75
P4 AI <  Sherman 75
P4 AT < Sherman 76
P4 AI > Sherman 76

[BigDick]

Stock P4 is much better in the anti tank department, sporting much higher penetration and slightly better reload.

Sherman has a bit more health (6%)

ok we put some numbers onto the desk

penetration P4 against Sherman 50.11125%
penetration Sherman against the P4 48.6712%

difference 1.44005% wow thats really huuuuuuggeeee

while the splash area is 20% bigger on the 75mm sherman
the splash damage from 1m away of the center of shell impact is 42.857% higher

i should make some kind of visualization of colored circles with color shades of dealt damage to have a bit better overview how much more splash the 75mm sherman has when im bored next time  
 
furthermore it makes a difference if you shot a 6 guy squad or 4 guy squads because without attack ground there will be always 1 guy aimed and the health of a 6 men squad is spread out further


your turn  

[kwiatekkek]

[BigDick]

 

ok i was bored or better i wanted to know myself

ok it looks like uneven boobs   - which one would you prefer  



so in 87.5% of the splash area (which is even bigger than on p4) the sherman deals 74.9% more damage

the gray shading match exactly the % of damage

[Valexandes]

Shermans and P4s are fine.

Shermans may be a tad better but there are more threats to them on the battlefield.
The more prevalent AT abilities of axis can easily handle the shermans.

If shermans are constantly raping your P4s start using some support.
The units performance is close enough that both properly supported is pretty much a toss up.

Edit: also most axis inf have more health than allies so to maintain similar squad killing effectiveness you need more damage. ROF is also higher on P4 so you get more weaker shots making a miss less of an issue.

With skirts and a higher ROF the p4 is able to stick around for a couple shots more easily than the sherman.

[BigDick]

Edit: also most axis inf have more health than allies so to maintain similar squad killing effectiveness you need more damage.

are you sure?

let me see:

grensquad/pgrens: 320HP
volks                 : 300HP
storms               : 380HP

rifles                  : 330HP
rangers              : 390HP
airborne              :420HP

ur turn 

[Valexandes]

Per man.

Therefore more damage needs to be done to result in kill.

Sherman, more damage less often.
Crap moving accuracy

[BigDick]

1. p4 and sherman have exactly the same moving accuracy
2. you talked about damage to deal to kill squads and not man so p4 needs to kill 50% more men

your turn