88 accuracy vs inf/support weapons

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[Unkn0wn]

We didn't nerf the 88 vs inf & support weaps like vCOH did, yet anyway.

[BigDick]

Am I the only one who skipped all of nightrain's posts?

IDK, 88 got a big anti-inf nerf in 2602, which was transferred over a while back afaik. Reducing it further...idk I'm not sure.

nope change wasn't done in eir - i complained about it so many times but got always the answer that they don't want to change it for some reason - if it nerfs the flak to much it could be compensated by more quick build time or something

flak accuracy is basically 0.5 in eir vs inf and 0.15 in vcoh

ATG's needs to stay the same, as they and 88's are each other's hard counter (neither ever misses each other).

i disagree it feels retarded flaks being the counter to ATGs and the way around and it makes to much win or loss trying to snipe a flak with dual ATGs

counter to flaks should be infantry or indirect fire same to ATGs + flanking the ATG

We didn't nerf the 88 vs inf & support weaps like vCOH did, yet anyway.

there was no change vs support weapons in vcoh just vs inf - maybe because a mortar is supposed to be used behind a shotblocker or something

[RikiRude]

I think one thing is splash, splash on 88 needs to be none, I think we've all seen it kill multiple units at once. I agree accuracy vs inf should be lowered, but I think if it got lowered it's pop should be lowered as well.

As said if someone has an 88 you either stay away, or make a cohesive attack against it. With the fact that the thing can be killed in ONE SHOT before it even gets set up is lame.

Another problem is atgs vs it and it vs atgs. Obviously it is much too powerful against atgs, but at the same time, if you sneak, it only takes 2-3 atg shots to kill it. It's as easy as killing an ostwind that can't move. It really should have less accuracy vs atgs it seems like it's at 110% it should have a little less accuracy vs atgs as atgs have vs it.

If it loses too much of it's anti infantry capability it should get reduced pop or reduced build time.

[Smokaz]

How can we have a serious discussion when players troll every sane description of the 88?

Let's see:

- Lionel says its expensive, yet its cheaper than a unskirted p4 in fuel
- Lionel says its vulnerable to arty, as far as I know it's one of the few units thats almost IMMUNE to calliopes and can do its own counter-mortaring.
- Nightrain says its "fragile", in a docrine that potentially could allow you to have medikits, sandbags, FTFL and a med bunker affecting it at the same time.. hello?

- Medikits DO heal the item health, so stop trolling about this.
- "Taking away its AI would make it worse than nashorn".. Yeah right, you trade AA power, surivivability and potential arty for mobility. Nashorn isn't even that bad, and its also a reward unit so comparing mainstay doctrine choices to it is unfair.

Nightrain: "Defensive have no armor buffs" - TROLOLOL? Have you even read your defensive doctrine description? Let me quote for you: "Supervison now affects vehicles."

All I would think is fair is for it to stop hitting infantry, snipers, mg teams and mortars.

[LeoPhone]

I don't think medkits heal the gun. but even if they did, it would only be like 50 hp or something

[Smokaz]

ive tested this with pak several times, so i know medikits on paks heal the item

[LeoPhone]

pak is not 88

[Audemed]

Who cares about the medkits anyways, 9 XP = regen, which does the gun too.

[BigDick]

Who cares about the medkits anyways, 9 XP = regen, which does the gun too.

i can't deny 100% sure but as it looks to me i wouldn't say so

[LeoPhone]

the 88 weapon rgd has can_repair on false so it cant heal......

[RikiRude]

if medkits heal gun it's so minor that it makes NO difference it would mayyybe regen enough health to let you take another BOYs AT shot, maybe. i've used several medkits on an 88 and didnt see gun health go up.

im going to have to call shenanigans on your medkit gun heal statement smokaz show a video or something.

also i was quite certain that vet 1 doesnt heal the gun itself either? or at least i heard they were going to or did take it out. but i havent really paid much attention.

[BigDick]

the 88 weapon rgd has can_repair on false so it cant heal......

so not even the medbunker heal the gun? why are all building medbunkers next to it just for the crew?

[LeoPhone]

so not even the medbunker heal the gun? why are all building medbunkers next to it just for the crew?

yea man. I got fatherland defense 88, the crew can survive a direct howy shot in the face. as long as they heal back up fast enough to take another hit.

[BigDick]

so this urban walrus legend:

ive tested this with pak several times, so i know medikits on paks heal the item

is wrong too? interesting

i actually never noticed pak healing by medkits but i don't use them on paks that often (only when mun leftover)

[RikiRude]

so not even the medbunker heal the gun? why are all building medbunkers next to it just for the crew?

it helps, trust me, many times my 88 would be dead if it weren't for the healing of the bunker next to it.

[Smokaz]

What is separating the healing of the triage from the med bunker then?
I swear I have seen the item health of both paks and the 88 go up ingame between recrews or indicated by the bar. I'll check it out next game I play where my pak or 88 takes damage without the item blowing up.

[Computer991]

lol nightrain.... just because something is a signature of a doctrine doens't mean it needs to be OP as fuck 450MP,220 FU is very very very cheap for what it does. If the case was that a factions only star shnining unit should be strong then airborne wouldn't be shit and don't you fucking dare try to compare callys because they are nowhere near as cheap as 88's and not the mention they are 12 pop not 8 and are useless until a tier 4.

500 MP,140 MU(Repairkits),365 FU (18 Pool) 12 Pop = Cally
450 MP, 20 MU(Healing kit),220 MU (11 Pool) 8 Pop = 88

Hardly comparable.

[nikomas]

Just had a game were I took an 88, an allied triage did not heal the gun and only the crew.

[TheVolskinator]

Just played a 4v4 against leo and gork.

The 88 isnt balanced right now. Let's face it, if someone takes an 88 there's a 99% chance that they'll grab 88 arty with it. The 88's ability to turtle hop across the map and literally draw a line that you cant cross is silly. It nukes anything trying to cower behind a hedge (mortar, atg, infantry, jeeps) which defeats the purpose of the WM mortar and removes the need to equip that unit in your company. The fact that its rare to see single 88 company compounds the issue; lets take this out of a vacuum and see that in multiples the 88s all-around over effectiveness and ability to arty for such a low cost (gork can fit SIX fucking 88s in his company) is stupid. "Derp go around it". Even on a 4v4 map it takes, what, 3 88s to lock down the map so that a couple of tanks can take care of the rest? "Nuke it with howies". Well, the axis can offmap it, hit it with a turtle hopping 88, or just rush you with tanks and take it out. It forces you to play ww1 style and turtle around your howitzer lest it gets bumrushed by every tank the axis can muster. Which is counter intuitive when people say you need to be agressive around 88s.

[GORKHALI]

Just played a 4v4 against leo and gork.

The 88 isnt balanced right now. Let's face it, if someone takes an 88 there's a 99% chance that they'll grab 88 arty with it. The 88's ability to turtle hop across the map and literally draw a line that you cant cross is silly. It nukes anything trying to cower behind a hedge (mortar, atg, infantry, jeeps) which defeats the purpose of the WM mortar and removes the need to equip that unit in your company. The fact that its rare to see single 88 company compounds the issue; lets take this out of a vacuum and see that in multiples the 88s all-around over effectiveness and ability to arty for such a low cost (gork can fit SIX fucking 88s in his company) is stupid. "Derp go around it". Even on a 4v4 map it takes, what, 3 88s to lock down the map so that a couple of tanks can take care of the rest? "Nuke it with howies". Well, the axis can offmap it, hit it with a turtle hopping 88, or just rush you with tanks and take it out. It forces you to play ww1 style and turtle around your howitzer lest it gets bumrushed by every tank the axis can muster. Which is counter intuitive when people say you need to be agressive around 88s.

Blob even more and i will crush ur inf even harder