88 accuracy vs inf/support weapons

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[RikiRude]

one thing i have to say to "no one ever grabs just one 88"

well who WOULD? its a T2 unlock, I sure as heck aint going to grab just one.

maybe make 88s T3 unlock, and switch pak40s and leig to T2?

that might help balance things at least a little.

[Valexandes]

Just drop accuracy against inf, atg, and support weapons.
Perhaps reduce accuracy against tanks in short rank as well but not necessarily a whole lot.

They really are extremely cost effective as is.
For accuracy drops I would suggest only small changes as it isn't terribly off but the accuracy against mortars and hmgs is far too high and against atgs it could use maybe a .2 drop.

[GORKHALI]

to bring down 88 u need just 2 rangers squad with bazookas and its dead in seconds ,so its not OP unit ,..only 3 arty shells from 88 that is not enough i want six 105 shells everytime i fire arty with 88 then it is OP and one more thing those arty r not accurate as u guys think 1 out of 3 shells hits the units with accidently thats all so beat it with 88 OP discussion .

[Vermillion_Hawk]

I sincerely believe there should be a 20-30 second "cooldown" after firing artillery before the 88 can go back into regular firing mode. That would force the player to choose to respond to your artillery threat with counter-battery fire and potentially expose their defensive line, or remain on the defensive and try to weather the storm.

And it doesn't take "just 2 ranger squads" to kill an 88, considering the 88 is rarely going to be alone and unprotected on the battlefield.

[Tymathee]

there is a delay from firing. maybe not as long as 20 seconds (which is a life time in eir) but it sabout 3-5 while the gun is coming back down and there's a delay when its going to fire.

i've used the delay before to run an 88 that fired arty with a tank and won. If u want to learn how to counter it, use it.

[Valexandes]

The thing about 88 artillery vs.105 artillery is the accuracy/damage.
One 88 shell will hit the target and do far more damage than the 105 will because with the 105 you are fairly lucky to get one shell to directly hit and this will do only minor damage. Not to mention how much weaker 105 is to infantry.

The same goes for the 25pdr. Both the 105 and 25 pdr have absolutely nothing to defend themselves the way the 88 can. That is fine except that the 88 also happens to be a much more effective anti artillery than the 105, 25pdr and calliope are.

The most effective thing I have found against 88s is a mortar barrage. Nothing else is reliably effective however even these mortars can easily be raped by an 88.

[Smokaz]

Imagine the rage if a 105 howitzer was shooting your dudes during recharge of the main arty ability from 100 range!

[RikiRude]

I'm sorry, but the 88s accuracy is completely range dependent and it is pretty crazy from what I've dealt with. Even with an officer attached I've still had my barrages miss a stationary target many times.

So I hear from too many people, how crazy accurate they are, but how close are you when you're seeing this kind of accuracy? Because at max range you'll be lucky to have one shell land kind of close to the target. mid range there's a decent chance, and close range always hits on the mark.

Imagine the rage if a 105 howitzer was shooting your dudes during recharge of the main arty ability from 100 range!

honestly i wondered why there wasn't a similar use for howie, the ability to fire like a lieg but with nastier shells.

[TheVolskinator]

Because infantry coy should only be able to spam triple bars (insert other fanboi logic here). Or "its OP!"

Tbh I like the idea. +1. Super-GMC 

[lionel23]

Smokaz, please spread more lies

Anyway, I always run 4 88s in my Defensive company so I know the following:

1) Medkits do NOT heal the gun, they are strictly for the crew.  They are the only ATG in the game that cannot be repaired, even with a med bunker
2) 88s are vulnerable to arty, especially the crew.  The reason mine are so tough because I take the Fatherland Defensive T4 to significantly increase their survivability.  I also do NOT run officers nor do I run 88 arty (which is nice but I prefer a stronger gun over indirect fire).
3) Saying the calliope sucks against an 88 is the reason the 88 needs to be nerfed?  The calliope has always been a subpar arty unit unless firing at medium/close range into a horde of infantry.  Firing it at long range at an 88 of course it's going to suck compared to a howie or a creeping 25lber.
4) 88 is very vulnerable to handheld AT (zooks especially) and heavy ATGs (such as the 17 and M5).  It MAY beat a solo ATG that isn't supported, but most of my 88 losses has been to ATG mass creep or dueling with the significantly tougher ATG counterparts.

It's accuracy is just fine against infantry, support weapons, and ATGs.  As an ATG, it should be just like all other atgs in terms of ATG duels, as that is a part of EIRR.  Support weapons are considered like vehicles, hence why people use RRs, zooks, and shreks to take out MGs and atgs and mortars.  I don't see why it needs to be different.  And for being the most expensive and non-mobile ATG in the game, I think it's just fine vrs inf.  It's no flakvierling and can be taken down easily with hand grenades (which people seem to refuse to use) or assault weapons and flamers.  Of course a vanilla riflemen or tommy squad isnt taking the gun alone due to the cover shield and the gun can face them to reduce damage.

[Jstek]

The Defensive 88 is way over buffed.  It does everything VERY WELL.  For the cost its bad ass.  Who needs anything to be mobile when it has the range it does.  Doesn't need to be mobile.

Do one of the following:

1.  Cut the range down considerable; to that of an regular AT gun..  Hey you were saying ATG gun duels..  Yeah, aint a duel if you kill it before its in range.

-OR-

2.  Cut the gun transversial down.  The damn 88 gun rotates like it an Abrams Tank.  It was a damn hand crank for god sake.  Doing this not make the 88 so bad ass to multi-prong attacks.

-OR-

3.  Give the allies the A-BOMB offmap!  That way, it can destroy everything and win the game when used.  Kinda like they 88 is now.  Its only fair!

[NightRain]

88 also requires constant spotting in order to be fully effective. Killing spotters means that 88 is helpless. Flanking the 88 also is very good idea. There are multitude of tactics from IWin offmap button, 105s, 25Pdrs FOOs, etc etc.

The 88 is pretty fine. The only doct buffs it gets is T1 Officer who requires a T3 to supervise it and a T4 that boosts its health. Or you get artillery for it.

[Spartan_Marine88]

boo hoo jstek.

Why don't you use 1 of the other 10 different ways of dealing with an 88, instead of crying about it because you try m10 rushing it, or just being stupid.

1. flames+ smoke

2. smoke + atgs

3. arty

4 large amounts of well used infantry (this means not blobing)

5. attacks from multiple directions

6. any air offmap (recons, typhoons etc.) that the 88 will prioritize over any attack + whatever you can think of.

7. massive combined arms assault.

8. single captain foo

9. sniper

10. any of the above combined.

[RikiRude]

how many people who complain about 88s actually use them some what extensively? for them to be effect it really depends on map, and if you want them to be cost effective, (which in reality is killing about 15 inf kills or 2x tank kills, which isn't that much) you have to build your company around it. You dont just slap an 88 down and profit. It's so much more than that.

If you play against my defensive company you will see medic bunker near it, mg, mines, goliath, officer ready for a defensive barrage, i keep pulling troops back if there are signs of trouble. Then I'll get my kills worth on the 88. But hell if do it right, yeah my company will own. It's just like a tiger, if you see how AmPm works his company around his tiger you'd think the tiger was super OP.


I do agree that maybe the accuracy towards inf could be turned down a little, but 88s arent these impossible things that you can't overcome. Unless well... L2P =P

[MorkaandBorka]

Your dum,b ghorkali...alll you do is spam 88s

Fuckyou too, for being fucking faggy, fuck you bro, ok wait brb someones calling my name

[Poppi]

Im not only amazed by the 88s power but also by its accuracy.

Its pretty much a sniper with AT powers.

Such things like Jeeps or LVs or phase armor are never a factor. It wont miss. Its range is half a map pretty much. And can kill blow up inf or vehicles. ROF is pretty high too. Cant believe it is given arty option and buffs.


Not saying its OP. A swarm will take it down. But then again you got to be an idiot to not protect such a deadly weapon. Protect it with MGs b/c no one will ever send armor after that thing.

My complaint is how versatile the 88s is, and how much of an ace it is at killing anything.

[smurfORnot]

Protect it with MGs b/c no one will ever send armor after that thing.

smoke anyone? 

Such things like Jeeps or LVs or phase armor are never a factor.

marder also always hits jeep...

[MorkaandBorka]

im addictined to EIe i think the fuckign forums are bullshit.


Also...im making macaroni and cheese...its being fucked p. ok

[Poppi]

smoke anyone?  
marder also always hits jeep...

smoke isnt always available. Not sure how many players bother brining more than 1 US mortar team as useless as they are. Honestly i dont see even 1 that much.
And marder arent sniping jeeps and ranger or snipers half way across maps. So...marder point is mute.

And i guess the issue was never taking down 88s.  More like wtf is up with the crazy long range super acc plus arty ability. Plus coupled with a descent army or player tactics and usually gameover or avoid that whole 40% of the map till later. blah whatever rarely see a people use 88s to their fullest. idiot allies keep sending units to the meat grinder.

[MorkaandBorka]

my name is on every thread ON THE FRONT PAGE IS THIS REDDIT?