Realism Mod Concept

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[TheVolskinator]

Being totally unrelated to EiR. I was thinking about how to make CoH truly realistic, not just boosting damage and range such as in BKmod.
General changes:
-Increasing range, but past previous parameters--50 range for rifles/LMGs/ARs, 45 for SMGs, 60-100 for tank cannons.
-Unit sight range would be limited, and would increase by incriments of 5m at 5, 10, and 15 seconds after stopping--so while moving, your sight range would be severely reduced. This isnt like BKmod where it stays the same and then increases while stopped, you'd LOSE sight range while moving.
-Tanks would dominate the battlefield, but would be severely hampered by several limitations (stated under Tank Changes).
-Although infantry and tanks have limited sight ranges, tanks will reveal enemy vehicles and HMGs(not counting ATGs) on your minimap in the FoW, while infantry will reveal enemy vehicles and infantry in the FoW. This reveal area wouldn’t extend past 40-45m and would represent hearing an enemy before moving towards the disturbance and finally making contact when the FoW is lifted.
-New projectile mechanics:
-Accuracy would be ~80% at short range, ~30% at medium range, and ~15-20% at long and extreme ranges.
 -Scatter would be reduced to almost 0, so even rolled misses could still clip the intended target.
 -All projectiles would use the artillery projectile type, (excluding sniper rounds), but with a remodeled flat trajectory and fast projectile speeds. Even rolled hits wont curve around corners or LOLWTF chase an AC with Overdrive up a red cover road.
 -Bazookas, PzShrecks, and PzFausts would have an arcing (but very flat) trajectory, as would tank shells.
-ATGs would be inferior to tanks, but could fire off 4-5 shells from a concealed position (in likeness to Piat ambush) before appearing. Youd need a tank to counter a tank; ATGs would be the poor man's solution.
-Costs would reflect unit availability and would be used to counter various stat differences; a Tiger would faceroll allied armor just as easily as it does in BKmod, but would be a very expensive investment.
-Heath and squad size would be *almost* uniform (see Infantry Changes). Combat effectiveness comes down to how good a given unit’s weapons are and how quickly or accurately they can fire them. Elite soldiers are more effective with their weapons, but when they get shot they’re killed just as dead as some poor conscript chump.
-ATGs would get a ground and entity targetable HE shot. The US M1 57mm/6 Pounder and the US 37mm would have twice as long a cooldown on their HE shot ability to reflect the real life lack of HE shells for those weapons.

[TheVolskinator]

Infantry Changes:
-Accuracy would be changed to ~.90/.30/.15-20 at S/M/L (15/35/50) for infantry.
-All squads could use the Field Dressings ability for free, regardless of vet level, with a 20 second cooldown, to recover wounded members. Vet1 squads would only suffer a 10 second cooldown, and would have .85 received accuracy and would sprint to the victim when the ability was activated.
-New vet! Vet1: -5% received accuracy, -5% received damage, +5% accuracy, Grenade Throw range +10 (if applicable).
Vet2: -5% received accuracy, -5% received damage, +5% accuracy, -10% cooldown, gains the Sprint ability with exhaustion.
Vet3: 0.035 health regen, -5% received accuracy, -5% received damage, +10% accuracy, -10% cooldown and reload, exhaustion removed.
-All infantry would automatically cloak in cover, with no stat bonuses. American and British squads could fire out from cover for 4 seconds before being revealed, while German squads could fire from cover for 7 seconds without being relealed—the Germans hold the ambush advantage to showcase their real life ambush abilities.
-All infantry could use the crawling cloak ability to move around the map. Red cover would reveal the cloaked unit, and all infantry units would have an extended cloak reveal radius (~20m) so that ninja blobs wouldn’t go undetected. Revealed squads won’t return fire unless the ability is toggled off, and would suffer doubled received accuracy if taken under fire while the cloak is still active.
-Riflemen (12 Men): 1 Thompson, 1 M1918A2 BAR, 3 M1 Carbines, 7 M1 Garands. At Vet2, the squad’s Carbines are replaced by M3 Grease Guns. Can purchase a 13th member; a Radioman armed with an M1 Carbine. Would enable an aura to that and all nearby squads increasing their default (and expanded-when-stopped) sight ranges by 5, and max weapon range by 2. The aura would also convey .25 incremental accuracy to all recipients and the originator to signify increased fire coordination and better effectiveness against large enemy formations. The Sight and Range bonuses wouldn’t stack, but the incremental accuracy bonus would stack up to .50 (2 squads worth of aura be thar’), and no further. Riflemen would retain their fast capping speed and also move at a speed of 2.25. If the squad leader is killed, the squad loses this speed bonus and their capping speed is reduced by .25 until the leader is reinforced. If the original BAR gunner is killed, the weapon will be passed but the squad will lose the ability to use the Suppressing Fire ability.
-Rangers (10 Men): 1 M1 Carbine, 4 Thompsons, 6 M1 Garands. Fully accurate on the move. Have a 2.5 movespeed; won’t lose it even if the squad leader is killed. Can fire up.
-Airborne (12 Men): 1 ‘Leader Thompson’ (Carbine with Thompson RoF, magazine size, etc), 1 M1919A6 .30 cal LMG, 3 M3 Grease Guns, 2 M1 Carbines, 7 M1 Garands. Can purchase a 13th member; a Radioman armed with an M1 Carbine. Would enable an aura to that and all nearby squads increasing their default (and expanded-when-stopped) sight ranges by 5, and max weapon range by 2. The upgrade would also enable the Mark Target ability. Can use Concealing Smoke at Vet2. Can Fire up at Vet1.
-Volksgrenadiers (8 Men, but lower price): 2 MP44s (Full Auto), 3 MP40s, 5 VG K98ks. Doesn’t gain Sprint at Vet2 or the regen aura at Vet3. Can fire a Panzerfaust (below average accuracy).
-Grenadiers (10 Men): 1 MP40, 1 LMG34, 2 Leader StG44s (3 round burst), 6 Grenadier K98ks. Throw Grenade ability throws 3 grenades at Vet2. Squad gains a .10 movespeed bonus at Vet3. Squad’s LMG34 is replaced by an Assault-Configured LMG42 (fires on the move) at Vet3. Reduced fire-aim times at Vet2. Can purchase a Senior NCO with a G41(w) rifle (M1 Garand with no long range cooldown penalties and slightly higher M/L range accuracy). Senior NCO enables +5% accuracy when the squad is in H/G cover. Can fire (an) Accurate Panzerfaust shot.
-Stormtroopers (10 Men): 1 MP40, 3 Leader StG44s (3 round burst), 2 MP44s, 1 LMG42, 3 Stormtrooper K98ks. Grenades are replaced with Bundled Grenades at Vet1. Squad gets a 5% damage bonus from its ambush. Can use the “For the Leader!” ability, which doubles it’s rate of fire and grants a 2% damage bonus for 15 seconds at the targeted squad, but the Stormtrooper squad will suffer 1.5 received accuracy and damage for the duration, as well as 45 seconds of exhaustion. Squad can Fire up at Vet2, but fire up doesn’t increase the squad’s rate of fire.
-Panzer Grenadiers (8 Men): 1 MP40, 2 LMG42s, 1 G43, 2 Leader StG44s (3 round burst), 2 Panzer Grenadier K98ks. Can throw an AT Grenade. Gains Grenadier grenades with the PE incendiary nade burn wake at Vet2.
-Falshirmjaegers (11 Men): 1 Luftwaffe K98k, 1 G43, 2 FG23s, 3 PE Leader StG44s (3 round burst), 2 Assault-Configured LMG42s, 2 MP40s. Falshirmjaegers gain a 5% accuracy buff and a 10% damage buff from their ambush, and can fire for 9 seconds without revealing themselves. Gain Sprint with no exhaustion at Vet2. Can use the Suppressive Volley Fire ability. Can Fire (an) Accurate Panzerfaust Shot. Can purchase a PzBusche 20mm AT rifle to replace the squad’s G43 OR a Telescopic Scope for the squad’s G43 at Vet3 (Replaces the squad’s G43 with the G43 Sniper Rifle), at the cost of the Suppressive Volley Fire ability in either case. The squad gains +5% damage and +15% accuracy (instead of +10%) at Vet3. If the squad is air-dropped into battle, it will take 1 minute for the squad to equip weapons or abilities of any kind.
-Squad formations would change based on situation: Wehrmacht ‘Spread Head’ formation for all Allied (US and British) squads when moving, and the Panzer Grenadier ‘Sharkhead’ triangle for all Axis squads when moving. When under attack, all Vet0-1 squads’ formation would change to a double offset row  Riflemen ‘Line Abreast’—allowing effective use of cover. At Vet2, the formations would change to an Engineer ‘polygon’ (US/CW for all Vet2 squads) and Wehrmacht ‘Spread Head’ (PE/WM for all Vet2 squads) for normal movement stance and a double offset row of the British Infantry Section ‘Line Abreast’ formation for all factions’ squads when under attack. For move commands greater than 40 units away from the squad’s current location, the squads would assume a double row marching formation, similar to the one Grenadier squads assume when upgraded with double LMGs or shrecks. This would be the case regardless of Vet level.
-Although original unit costs would be similar, Allied squads would be reinforced for noticeably smaller costs per man, reflecting a more readily available manpower reserve. German squads would require a more cautious investment to become cost effective.

[TheVolskinator]

Tank Changes:-Top MG upgrades would add a 30m full LoS (same as the current 360* LoS) and an extra LoS 'cone', but would increase the tank cannon's reload time by 2s if the Gunner Killed critical occured due to the loss of the commander/loader. This would be remedied after repairs.
-Sight range would only extend to maybe 30-35m, and only in a cone (similar to the firing cone of a Marder) ahead of the tank and a cone linked to the main cannon--infantry could theoretically hide out from a passing tank by staying out of it's limited LoS, which would prompt infantry coordination with the tanks in order for tanks to spot things.
-Tank sight would increase by incriments of 5m and by 5* at 5, 10, and 15 seconds after stopping.
-Tank range would increase by 5-10m after being stopped for 10 seconds.
-Tanks would rely on their MGs to fight infantry. Tank cannons would have reduced effectiveness vs infantrymen.
-Tank cannons would have longer reloads. These would average anywhere from 6s to 12s.
- All tanks would come with an AP/HE shell toggle (0 splash, +20+% penetration/5-7m splash, -10% penetration) with notable exceptions such as US Tank Destroyers, Marders, Panthers, etc.
-Caliber and velocity have influence over range. A Pz IV will outrange a Sherman on an even playing field, although the range difference would be no more then 3m.
-Tanks in cover will be considered ‘Hull Enfilade’ after being stopped for 15 seconds, and will have -50% received accuracy.
-At long range, armor type, weapon, health, etc come into play to define each different armored unit. At medium and short range, every tank can reliably penetrate and damage every other tank—close range tank battles were knockout brawls where numbers decided the victor. At 20 yards a Sherman could shit all over a Tiger and vice versa. Critical defection chances would still be in play to tip the balance in favor of vastly more expensive German units 1v1.
-Mobilities and turret rotation would be ultra realistic, with Tigers and M10s feeling the biggest kick to the nuts with 60s 360* turret rotation times. A Sherman would be weill paced, a Panther moreso, and M18s would be speed demons able to outrun every other armored unit.

[Tymathee]

....so, are you going to make this mod or are you just  spilling ideas out your head?

[LeoPhone]

general discussion. hmmmmmmmmmmm

[TheVolskinator]

Assuming I can get my corsix to work, yes, but is it a viable change? Esp at General changes; would the projectile changes actually result in more 'realistic' firefights? Would this actually create realism past what BKmod has done with boosted damage and range out the wazoo. If I can't get my freaking Corsix to work, then this is just an idea I shat out.

EDIT: Bear in mind, I'm no coder. I know how all the little bits and peices fit together and work, but I've never been able to create the right module file changes to edit a mod in corsix. I have 0 modding experience as of now.

(If anyone could either send me the edited module file so Corsix can run and edit Tales of Valor files (the version I have) I'd be very grateful. Or to at least explain to me how the hell I do modify the file, since the post on relic's modding forums didn't help...or I didn't do it correctly.

[DarkSoldierX]

Or... you can play Men Of War XD

CoH just isnt made for what you have in mind. Might as well not even try this one volks.

[Spartan_Marine88]

To be honest, it reminds me of old commandos mod for coh, which was a blast.

[smurfORnot]

have you played I think it's battle of the bulge mod? It was that snow mode centered about fight in that forest I think. It is quite realistic,atleast was last time I played it. Tanks had extreme ranges,they shots rly hurt,you could kill enemy tank in like 2-3 shots,etc,etc...you should try it.

[hans]

so tiger has to face 15 shermans or more and still beats all of them? same with panther...

well tbh, coh engine and so on is not made for this, especially if each squad has 12 men or more + the new engine u wanna implement, it will fuck up some computers.

well even if u have such a good pc and u wanna fight tigers or panthers with mass amounts of allied tanks (lol), u alone will never make this and u wont find a team that might help u.

nice idea, but not possible

[EscforrealityTLS]

You might be interested in Fortress Europe and we need help, post on our forum if you want to contribute or PM Eliw00d.

http://forum.medpackstudios.com/index.php

Its basically EIR + Realism and fully functioning (2.5 years in the making). We are Alpha testing but need lot of help to get it out. We need testers and coders and really importantly, another programmer.

Here are the descriptions of the mod:

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?224394-Fortress-Europe-Updated-23-January-Game-Options-Preview

and

http://www.moddb.com/mods/fortress-europe

The mod is going to be awesome when released, think about these already functioning items: Vehicle & tank crews, ammo for every weapon, all artillery called by observers, real to life company compositions! From company to Division&Corps level.

Not to mention a complete over haul of the damage system, new criticalss such as crewman injured or internal fire! Oh and to make things even more awesome, tanks have hard time spotting infantry due to a completely new cammo system other than tp_mine and tp_global! This forces the player to use combined arms!

Anyway we need help finishing it, help would be awesome, even if only to be a alpha tester. If you want to help but the position you would like to help with is not on the list post anyway.

Here are some links to our help request adds:

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?224394-Fortress-Europe-Updated-23-January-Game-Options-Preview&p=1045340060&viewfull=1#post1045340060

http://www.moddb.com/mods/fortress-europe/news/looking-for-capable-3d-modelers-and-texture-artists

[EIRRMod]

Sounds awesome!

Cant wait!

[NightRain]

Sounds awesome!

Cant wait!

soon(tm) ^ 10

[Duckordie]

-Increasing range, but past previous parameters--50 range for rifles/LMGs/ARs, 45 for SMGs,

That´s bad.

rifles had larger caliber, up to 3 times larger.
If use an MP40 its will be hard to fire on 200 meters, with those days standard weapons, 300 meters where standard.

Smg should be more like 30

[aeroblade56]

soon(tm) ^ 10

Soon.

[NightRain]

So with stormtroopers I toggle an ability which gives me minor buffs and allows me to take 50% more damage and recieved accuracy. The fu?

[3rdCondor]

I'll give a cookie to anyone who actually read all of volsky's posts with all the stats at the beginning of the thread.

[Sachaztan]

No cookie for me

[nikomas]

Same here  (Sorry man, I guess?)

[Sachaztan]

Same here  (Sorry man, I guess?)

But with that wall of text, what would one expect? Especially since it's just statistics.