Stormtroopers

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[nikomas]

So resident Blitzfanboy here, or well, before I converted to the glorious Terror/RE anyway... After giving it some thought, could some of you balance brainiacs _{(Tis a loving term, sort of )} actually see Stormtroopers work as an assault troop instead of a stealth one? While I do love them myself and still do think that they need their (Dual shreck) alpha strike power to be worth the hassle, maybe there could be a way to make them work without cloak?

Not really sure how myself, but I have to admit storms make fights pretty awkward even if I do think their "Nigh uncontrollability" is close to a myth*. I'd guess if this was the case they'd be worked towards more of an assault type unit but they'd need some stuff to make up for that given that without cloak they're really just grenadiers with 15+ health and some extra weapon options, it's really not enough to justify a separate unit on it's own.

I'd probably enjoy seeing more MP44 equipped storms in play and using them in a more assault oriented role if this is how the unit was redesigned, could still keep the double shrecks and their armor support role, but if it could be made to work without having to rely on the rather gimmicky (tbh) cloak that would be nice, cloak was always an odd one anyway squad wide.

Anyway, I'm not saying the unit is broken nor am I saying it's unbalanced... Simply wondering if it can be made more, well, less of a PITA/Gimmick


_{*Trust me here, as someone who's used them a lot a single jeep next to your tank is enought to give a warning to back out to long range before you get hit, same goes for recon tommies... Neither will do to much alone but combines with a Bar squad or a crom, it deals with storms pretty well.}

[tank130]

they're really just grenadiers with 15+ health and some extra weapon options, it's really not enough to justify a separate unit on it's own.

Rangers are just basically rifles with +10hp and elite armor and some extra upgrades.

So maybe just give them elite armor?

[nikomas]

Rangers are just basically rifles with +10hp and elite armor and some extra upgrades.

So maybe just give them elite armor?

Yeah, but allies play a bit differently methinks... I suppose it would encourage not going for BH and only BH, heh, on the other hand that gimps a certain T4 _{(I know, redesigns and all, but talking current shite)}
On some level I still think they need to be able to blitz things, if not by cloak maybe by sprint... But by that point they are basically turning into buffed Pgrens and that's a bit to mirrory to. Not to mention that they would basically be 4 man rangers at that point.

Actually, I'm sort of fine with that now that I think about it...


Haha, or as a joke you could replace cloak with "Ninja Smoke"... I'd be like the commando smoke but make em sprint for 5 seconds, NINJA (Dont that that seriously...)

[Mysthalin]

*Trust me here, as someone who's used them a lot a single jeep next to your tank is enought to give a warning to back out to long range before you get hit, same goes for recon tommies... Neither will do to much alone but combines with a Bar squad or a crom, it deals with storms pretty well.

So, being forced to blob into nice little 20 popcap bundles (which are as slow as the slowest unit - riflemen) at the very least to handle one single enemy unit is somehow good for balance? Considering the axis have always been simply.. Better at concentrated, slow moving fire-power bundles?

I honestly don't fucking buy that argument at all. Being forced to do that forces you to play EXACTLY the way the axis want you to if they want an easy victory. Sure, you'll negate the storms, maybe, with some luck, but you will flat out lose to the attrition war, as you are unable to utilise the one, single advantage you have playing vs Wehrmacht - your ability to strike speedily anywhere.

[nikomas]

I also said it was a PITA right? How well that will go depends entirely on how fast you can hunt those storms down. giving them any freedom = losses... it can be dealt with, doesnt mean it's not annoying.

[Smokaz]

Blitz needs to lose the received supression bonuses as a doctrine because it stacks too much with blitzkrieg. I wish the IBLOB part of blitz was reduced and the firepower part was increased for infantry.

Its a problem with blitzkrieg that it's being used defensively.

Cloak could also be looked at in general, because you can just cloak in front of 30 cals sometimes or even cloak while you are being attacked up close. It makes no sense

[smurfORnot]

because you can just cloak in front of 30 cals sometimes or even cloak while you are being attacked up close.

it's called 'predator camouflage' ,what is it that you don't understand? 

[Smokaz]

Make fireup as good as cloak then maddafakka

[hans]

Make fireup as good as cloak then maddafakka

i think its not the cloak or fire up that makes the difference. Its the weapon. Think about rangers with 2 shreks and stormtroopers with bazookas. If 4 ranger squads with shreks sprint towards ur tank and shoot and sprint away, it makes a difference right? Same with one striking bazooka storms. I think the weapon that is used makes the difference between those two forms of special abilities...

[smurfORnot]

thing is 2xbazooka rangers cost 80 munition,while 2x shreck guys cost 300mun,almost 4x investment. So yea,no wonder they do more dmg.
If rangers unload 4x zooks shots in the ass of the axis tank,specially with TR,it is gonna hurt.

[hans]

well yeah, but with fire up u might not get that effective behind the tanks as if u use cloak...

with fireup its even more hard to do so.

[Smokaz]

Fireup has a long cooldown, cloak is available 5 seconds after ambushing a tank and having ran away

[smurfORnot]

well,why not put cloak on longer cool down? so after you ambush something,you can't cloak for 30-60sec?

[Ahnungsloser]

Can anybody tell if there is a suppression break or a improved suppression recovery rate when you're at cloak?

I'm not sure if it was unlucky, but sometimes I had situations where I suppressed a Sturmtruppenn squad and
they crawl toward the HMG, suddenly they cloaked and throwed a bundle nade at it and escaped away.

[lionel23]

Yeah suppression MGs you should not use against Storms when alone.  What happens is when you suppress them, they crawl (and don't shoot).  When a unit doesn't shoot, cloak can take effect again.  So the squad cloaks from the suppression, crawls towards you and lobs the grenade.  You either have to have a scout or move the MG away once he's suppressed.

[aeroblade56]

Yeah suppression MGs you should not use against Storms when alone.  What happens is when you suppress them, they crawl (and don't shoot).  When a unit doesn't shoot, cloak can take effect again.  So the squad cloaks from the suppression, crawls towards you and lobs the grenade.  You either have to have a scout or move the MG away once he's suppressed.

lol what the fuck is that shit.

[Ahnungsloser]

I'm a bit confused. Sometimes my sniper is still suppressed even if he is at cloak when he faces some MG burst before it.

[nikomas]

I'm a bit confused. Sometimes my sniper is still suppressed even if he is at cloak when he faces some MG burst before it.

Pretty sure stormtroopers have a pretty nice supression recover rate, at least it's on par with grenadiers being heavy inf and all

[3rdCondor]

EDITED:

Although storms will lose the battle hardened free armor ability, they should still have an increase to maybe 300 mun for double shreks (instead of 280). They can be killed by pershings, jumbos, crocs, and other infantry units fairly easily. They can also die from conventional armor (so long as they have been spotted with jeeps or other scouts). They're a hard counter to medium armor/lv spam. The cloak is really the only thing preventing them from being utterly destroyed by conventional units, especially infantry (considering that the armor buff will be removed). If you go without cloak, you'll have to come up with some changes to make them be useful in a firefight. This could run the risk of making them much worse than they already are (whether it's a fireup buff, assault charge, or whatever).

I just don't see the point in changing them, besides increasing the cost and removing the armor. Let's try that first and then change it if need be.

[Mysthalin]

I don't see the point. Storms were fucking broken with double shreks when they cost 300 MU and the munitions pool was lesser, without access to elite armour. I honestly see no reason to continue "testing" something that has been flat out broken for years.

What you are proposing is, instead of having the greyhound nerf go from 30 FU per M8 to 80 FU, doing it in steps of first 35 FU. Then 40. Then 45. Then maybe staying with that for a year. Then going back to 40. Then staying there because nobody can be fucking bothered anymore.