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Author Topic: Rangers vs. Pgrens  (Read 22831 times)
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8thRifleRegiment Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2210



« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2012, 08:15:29 pm »

Becuase a pgrenm with an mp44 is not worth what they currently cost.

Id rather just pay 85munitions for x2 mp44s on regular pgrens tbh
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taco355 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 173


« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2012, 08:22:44 pm »

And that's the bloody problem, lol

So why are you expecting them to fight rangers and be effective?
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Tymathee Offline
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« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2012, 08:30:09 pm »

i have never heard such rants over vanilla rangers before. This is crazy but nerf rangers maybe?
'

theres no nerf needed. i wonder if he lost to grenades, if they were in cover while the grens weren't, if it was a pair of rangers, i dont know, but there's a lot of variable to the coh engine and people whine about random crap.
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"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"

Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
Demon767 Offline
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« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2012, 09:31:42 pm »

Tym - Herp derp nerf axis, Herp derp defend allies.
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Poppi Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1080


« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2012, 10:03:37 pm »

Maybe the complaint is for dual t3 rangers 2/lmgs (as my understanding 2lmgs are a bit much and are going away. So OP is sucking at OPing). Buffed Rangers do kick ass. Unstoppable...barely. Just treat them like elite soldiers (which im glad they are finally at there). KCH arent exactly resource heavy and in many cases go through several squads without losing a guy

But if nerf happens and 4thompsons go back to being 135mu for pathetic dps. Pass on BS over priced vanilla rangers.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 10:17:15 pm by Poppi » Logged
FailHammer Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 312



« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2012, 10:06:13 pm »

The problem is elite armor and long range effectiveness. with thompsons they have to pay a cost to get close. Im not even gonna talk about lmgs bc they are tarted. and pgrens just melt to them, no matter what their loadout is
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Tymathee Offline
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« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2012, 10:48:25 pm »

Tym - Herp derp nerf axis, Herp derp defend allies.

Demon - herp derp - axis should win all the battles herp derp

you're seriously defending someone saying a bazooka ranger should be nerfed cuz it lost to an assault gren lmao
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tank130 Offline
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« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2012, 11:03:20 pm »

Tym & Demon - keep your bullshit out of the balance forums please.
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NightRain Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3908



« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2012, 01:34:26 am »

It is true that Panzer Elite struggles versus both Airborne and Rangers but on top of it they kinda struggle against BARs as well. Heck anything infantry based is what is making fun out of Panzer Elite if you think about it. Except allied mortar because PE isn't all static. Suppression weapons, hand held AT and anti tank guns do rip poor PE to pieces and watching what things they have in their inventory I'm not sure what to think of it. Especially tripple BARs are what puts on a hurt. Bazookas and RRs make sure that there wont be any vehicle based support and you are forced to continue with infantry which by all definition is quite terrible. Do they have Wehrmacht Stormtrooper_k98s? If not it should be changed. Even with G43s they don't fair all too well. I wouldn't mind even if they get medkits from inventory which would extend their lives a bit.

Assault Grenadiers have always been a sad sight to be fair. Well- except when they had soldier armor.
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Tymathee Offline
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« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2012, 03:46:21 am »

I thought we all knew the mp44 is crap unless at short range

.1 at long
.3 medium

and if you're moving that's .75 and a burst multiplier of 1.5 further crippling it while on the move and THEN you add in heroic armor having .85 acc vs mp44 and if you are moving at a stationary ranger squad in cover, you should lose.

1. The Garand has good long range accuracy, .35 then .55, so the ranger is doing way more accuracy on the moving unit than the unit can deal back.

Really, that's enough.

.50 accuracy to unit in light/yellow cover
-.75 moving + 1.5 burst multiplier
+.85 incoming acc for heroic armor

.1 long range vs .35
.3 med range vs .55

Now after doing that math, a moving Assault Gren squad SHOULD lose to a Ranger Squad standing in cover, or else what's the point of using cover at all if it doesn't give you an advantage?

btw, how many mp44's does an Assault Gren squad get?
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Demon767 Offline
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« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2012, 03:52:27 am »

mp44 accuracy needs buff
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nikomas Offline
Shameless Perv
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Posts: 4286



« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2012, 07:16:25 am »

Tym...
Dont you see then, what's the bloody point of a short range assault unit if it CANT ASSAULT a rifle unit? That defeats the point of a unit.

Storms can assault via cloak, rangers and KCH have elite armor to help assault, assault grens are just fucked...
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Hicks58 Offline
Development
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« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2012, 07:49:02 am »

Dont you see then, what's the bloody point of a short range assault unit if it CANT ASSAULT a rifle unit? That defeats the point of a unit.

Storms can assault via cloak, rangers and KCH have elite armor to help assault, assault grens are just fucked...

KCH have Heroic armour.
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I mean I know Obama was the first one in EiR to get a card. and tbfh the Race card is pretty OP. but Romney has the K.K.K., those guys seem to camo anywhere. So OP units from both sides.
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nikomas Offline
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« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2012, 08:26:31 am »

KCH have Heroic armour.
I know that much, the point was that they both have armor buffed against small arms to help close into short range on other units with small arms.

I shouldn't have to spell out heroic/elite in this case :/
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8thRifleRegiment Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2210



« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2012, 09:13:51 am »

I shall put out a suggestion.

Tankbusters and assault grens as we all know are just pgrens with the extra weapons.

But for some reason you pay extra mp for them for no real reason as there isent really any MP based advantage (armor type, sqaud size)

What if we standardized the PGren and gave it the option to buy x1 shreck and x2 and x4 Mp44s, thus being able to remove the crap overpriced units that are tankbusters and assault grenadiers.

Allowing people to upgrade thier pgrens as they would a regular grenadier sqaud.

Becuase in actuality all the assault gren and tankbuster do is take up space when they could just be inetegrated into one unit.

Unless changes are made to these 2 units to justify thier MP costs.
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smurfORnot Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4715



« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2012, 09:58:34 am »

well,they were like that before,you would just buy upgrade for them. Dunno why was this removed,too many unit options?
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Tymathee Offline
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« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2012, 10:12:00 am »

Dont you see then, what's the bloody point of a short range assault unit if it CANT ASSAULT a rifle unit? That defeats the point of a unit.

Storms can assault via cloak, rangers and KCH have elite armor to help assault, assault grens are just fucked...

yeah i know, assault rifles used to have the same issue. but they do get sprint, doesn't that give an incoming acc/dmg buff or something?

I shall put out a suggestion.

Tankbusters and assault grens as we all know are just pgrens with the extra weapons.

But for some reason you pay extra mp for them for no real reason as there isent really any MP based advantage (armor type, sqaud size)

What if we standardized the PGren and gave it the option to buy x1 shreck and x2 and x4 Mp44s, thus being able to remove the crap overpriced units that are tankbusters and assault grenadiers.

Allowing people to upgrade thier pgrens as they would a regular grenadier sqaud.

Becuase in actuality all the assault gren and tankbuster do is take up space when they could just be inetegrated into one unit.

Unless changes are made to these 2 units to justify thier MP costs.

good point, but i think the reason was pool related but now that upgrades can cost extra pool, that can be changed.

btw, i find it kinda ironic that there used to be a huge campaign for grenadiers to get option to buy mp44's and assault grens are that unit but now it's not good enough.

the thing is though, how resistant should they be? they already get a ton of health per man (80) i dont know if i find an issue in them losing to something that costs more than them in pool pop and price even if they're holding an AT upgrade.

A lot of conditions were met that didn't benefit the assaulting unit and if that assault unit also stopped in front of yellow cover and was in red/open cover while the ranger was still in yellow, it should've lost. If he had went to the other side, it more than likely wins
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AmPM Offline
Community Mapper
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Posts: 7978



« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2012, 01:22:12 pm »

Give PE Assault Grens access to the Wehr nade? =) Could be fun.
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DarkSoldierX Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3015



« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2012, 05:24:13 pm »

mp44 accuracy needs buff
Nothing wrong with MP44s. They give amazing close range DPS and lose the least amount of DPS while on the move compared to all the other SMGs, especially when compared to Mp40s/Grease guns. Now the platform on the other hand, he is overpriced for what he is.

Personally I think the fix is to just revert assault grenadiers to there old price and platform. That way they are cheaper while they still maintain effectiveness against smallarms.

Tankbusters and assault grens as we all know are just pgrens with the extra weapons.

But for some reason you pay extra mp for them for no real reason as there isent really any MP based advantage (armor type, sqaud size)

What if we standardized the PGren and gave it the option to buy x1 shreck and x2 and x4 Mp44s, thus being able to remove the crap overpriced units that are tankbusters and assault grenadiers.

Allowing people to upgrade thier pgrens as they would a regular grenadier sqaud.

Becuase in actuality all the assault gren and tankbuster do is take up space when they could just be inetegrated into one unit.

Unless changes are made to these 2 units to justify thier MP costs.
Yeah well aparently the upgradability of a unit influences there base cost. Which is retarded when you consider when they are un-upgraded. For instance, you take a un-upgraded pgren squad.

It is nearly the same as a unupgraded gren squad right? Exact same survivability, and similar firepower.

The panzergrenadier squad ends up being more cost effective because it is 25 MP cheaper. I understand that a weapon should make the MP cost go up. But sometimes that weapon doesnt exist on such squad.

Which brings me to say, Why cant there be MP cost to weapons and other upgrades? The "upgrades should be MUNI only" argument seems like a OCD type issue to me.
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TheIcelandicManiac Offline
Resident forum troll. Fucked unkn0wns mom
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Posts: 6292


« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2012, 05:32:48 pm »

Heres an idea, Give PGrens the ability to buy 2 mp44s for the price of 60, while Giving the assult grens then Elite armor/soldier armor/Whatever armor BT wants.
This would enable people who enjoy going all out on expensive units and have assult grens that would be strong, and "Special" unit while enableing people who enjoy going small but effectiveunit callins to go with 2 Mp44 PGrens.


Edit: Give PGrens the ability to buy 2 Mp44s for some amount of whatever, Then you could do Whatever changes to the Assult gren like Armor/Health/Cost/Pool changes that the people would want without making them OP.
This would enable people who are not fans of Expensive units to go spend their mun on some good close quarters weapons if G43s arent doing the job.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 06:01:32 pm by TheIcelandicManiac » Logged

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