RIP Avre

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[TheWindCriesMary]

Not sure why, not sure when and not sure who the crazy sadistic clown wrangler who did it is... but the Avre has successfully been nerfed into oblivion.

Within the last 3 days I've noticed and absurd decrease in its splash and damage. This unit that maybe 3 players actually use (because it's so hard to use) is dead. This unit didn't need to be nerfed a few weeks ago regardless of whether it was nerfed again recently (which it may not have been, it's so hard to say).


RIP Avre. Another victim of knee-jerk, devil may care balance clumsiness.

[LeoPhone]

You lost vet 3 avre while ago, now u feel the difference between vet buffs and none.

There were no ninja changes in the patch 3 days ago.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Vet 1-3 gives no damage or AOE bonus to Avre's. Only decreased recieved damage, turret turn rate and recharge time. Also I've never had a vet 3 avre for more than a game or two so the point is completely irrelevant.


What I'm talking about is the unneccessary nerf (that we know of for sure) that AVRE's got a few weeks ago. That was just plain stupid. It seems to have gotten more noticeable in the past 3 days but if you say there has been no nerf in that time then it's the earlier one to blame for the AVRE's current crap state.

The more I try to make avre's work, the more I realize how horribly destroyed this unit has been.

Sure the popular units get buffed all the time to make sure they are balanced with all the cool toys out there, but AVRE has no one to stick up for it. It's like the ugly kid with one leg who gets beaten at the orphanage by the miscreant warden and nobody says anything about it.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Btw here is a replay with a few good examples of AVRE shots just completely failing. Check out the one right at the end of the game where 8+ enemy soldiers are well within range of a shot and it does.... well nothing.

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=25891.msg453250#msg453250

[tank130]

The community knows your build. I know myself and 2 other people who have intentionally altered their companies to counter yours.

I know you are very good at the game, this is not an attack on you - sincerely.

Could part of the problem be that people are recognizing weaknesses in the unit and are trying to exploit that. Resulting in it appearing weaker?

I am not sure what nerf you are talking about from 3 weeks ago? We patched in October and again 5 days ago. Unless I missed something?

[hans]

i gonna watch the replay (later). funny though 

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Wind, If you really want to make use of the AVRE start using the no-cooldown abuse that has been in sence Vcoh.
Keep in mind when you use the ability the time that takes the turret to rotate and get into the correct angle is diffrent depending of how far you want to fire but what i am writing in is its max range.
First: you start a stable beat(You can do this by either finding a good song that is in a stable tempo and that you can easily find it in the song at any time,i go with this song)
Second: you Order it for fire its shell, if you aim straight forward it should be only 2 beats and it should fly and (in the song handlebars it should be 6-8 guitar notes).
Third: find the exact beat of the thing, find out when it fires and when it decides to increase its guns angle of aim and the exact beat as it fires you do either 2 things, you either go and press H on your keyboard to halt or you drive backwards, both of those things work but i prefer backing up.
Fourth: You don't abuse too much and try to do it as discreetly as possible as people generally are not thrilled when they lose blobs of infantry to that.


Ill upload a video of me doing it against bots in vcoh if i find time later if i get the beat down again like i did in omgmod.
Also that is how i got a vet3 AVRE in omg once.

[hans]

Wind, If you really want to make use of the AVRE start using the no-cooldown abuse that has been in sence Vcoh.
Keep in mind when you use the ability the time that takes the turret to rotate and get into the correct angle is diffrent depending of how far you want to fire but what i am writing in is its max range.
First: you start a stable beat(You can do this by either finding a good song that is in a stable tempo and that you can easily find it in the song at any time,i go with this song)
Second: you Order it for fire its shell, if you aim straight forward it should be only 2 beats and it should fly and (in the song handlebars it should be 6-8 guitar notes).
Third: find the exact beat of the thing, find out when it fires and when it decides to increase its guns angle of aim and the exact beat as it fires you do either 2 things, you either go and press H on your keyboard to halt or you drive backwards, both of those things work but i prefer backing up.
Fourth: You don't abuse too much and try to do it as discreetly as possible as people generally are not thrilled when they lose blobs of infantry to that.


Ill upload a video of me doing it against bots in vcoh if i find time later if i get the beat down again like i did in omgmod.
Also that is how i got a vet3 AVRE in omg once.

fine, ban icelandic for giving tutorial of how to abuse bugs. Thx ice =(

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Pffft, never done it in eir anyways, only really works in OMG or Vcoh as the AVRE in EIR sucks and most of the time takes way too much micro to do successfully more than once a game if you are lucky.

[TheWindCriesMary]

The community knows your build. I know myself and 2 other people who have intentionally altered their companies to counter yours.

People have definitely gotten a lot smarter with fighting AVRE's. For the first week or two people would just go "lol avre" when I rolled it on to the field, and wouldn't make much effort to get out of buildings or move when I shot it. Now I have to be a lot more sneaky to get a good shot off before they micro out of the way.

But that's not the problem. It's the damage and AOE of the unit that has become problematic now that the AVRE has been unnecessarily nerfed. The problem I'm seeing now is that, more and more frequently, really good shots (that land squarely next/on to a support weapon or in a blob) are doing very little damage. Sometimes next to nothing. An AVRE is supposed to be hard to use and hard to get a good shot off, but when it hits it hits big.  Thats why it justifies spending a doctrine unlock, 8 pop and 240 fuel (a good amount of muni and MP too for cost and repairs).

I think PQ's inane decision to nerf the AVRE a few weeks ago was completely unneccessary and has drastically harmed a unit that was hardly popular to begin with.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Pffft, never done it in eir anyways, only really works in OMG or Vcoh as the AVRE in EIR sucks and most of the time takes way too much micro to do successfully more than once a game if you are lucky.

I've done it by accident twice in EiR. It's not a secret and it's not news -- it's also not something anyone should try to do purposefully.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

I've done it by accident twice in EiR. It's not a secret and it's not news -- it's also not something anyone should try to do purposefully.

Maybe so but dude, have you never seen the blobs they have in OMG?
They are fucking huge, is even more amazing if you do it against the brits and have the PE SE Sturmpanzer.
They think they are safe but their brain is fooling them, making them blind to the true danger that lurks near their feet.

[pqumsieh]

The close range AOE should kill any infantry/support team in the game. Or are you referring to the medium range damage going from 0.4 to 0.15?

edit: @Wind - You know you don't have to be all dramatic about something to get your point across, if the medium range value is too low we can always review it

[TheWindCriesMary]

I like your bloodlust.


But the AVRE should be returned to its normal state so that it doesn't need bugs to be effective.

Repeal the needless nerf.

[tank130]

I think PQ's inane decision to nerf the AVRE a few weeks ago was completely unneccessary and has drastically harmed a unit that was hardly popular to begin with.

What the heck...... what patch a few weeks ago?

[TheWindCriesMary]

In the previous state i used to sometimes do nothing as it had a chance to do nothing. We should just increase the damage of the current version. It may insta gib squads sometimes, but if you really wanted that squad alive you should have retreated right before getting hit.

Exactly. It's an ability-firing unit that costs 240 fuel, a doctrine unlock and takes several minutes to recharge. It has a slow turret turn rate, slow aim time and a relatively slow projectile. It's also useless against any kind of remotely armoured vehicle. It's also a unit that practically no one uses.

Why on earth we have ridiculously powerful units running around unchecked and somehow the AVRE gets hit with the nerf stick baffles me.

I think it's time to rethink the BT.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Was the AVRE patch all the way back in October? In that case that's what I meant. The few weeks ago thing is wrong.

[Ahnungsloser]

What is wrong with the AVRE?
There was no ninja change in the last patch because I have saved the old attribute file to retrack changes and with a short overview I could
not find a difference at the AVRE.

And the patch you mentioned they up to doubled the area of effect accuracy, lowered the friendly fire modifier and decreased the mid range
splash damage modifier from 0.4 to 0.15. But at 500 basic damage you will notice that change.

And even with that 0.15 modifier you will get a lot of kill with it (75Damage). The AVRE has no cover table modifiers which mean that
it will deal mostly the same amount of damage indepently of the cover type of your selected target. But received accuracy modifier from your targets
which are applied from veterancy/doctrine/emplacement cover/vehicle cover..  ..will make it possible to roll a miss which mean that you will deal no damage and exactly
that is the behaivor you have noticed. (Nothing wrong there, huh?)

What the heck...... what patch a few weeks ago?

Propably the 0.7.9.Z.2 Patch.

[tank130]

I can only speak from experience of being on the receiving end of the AVRE. I rarely ever see it not damage the target it is going for.

I also see this unit as more of a 'Oh Shit, Run' unit that works great for spearheading an attack. I am surprised it is not used like this more often.

It insta gibs Paks: pretty valuable asset I think.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Here is the nerf (from back in October, earlier than I realized).

AVRE - Area Effect
- Accuracy from 0.5/0.75/1 to 1/1/1.25
- Damage from 0.1/0.4/1 to 0.1/0.15/1
- Damage Friendly from 0.2/0.35/1 to 0.05/0.1/1

- Removed the modifier AVRE has vs suppressed/pinned units; values set to 1.
- Vet 3 - Removed +5 Range
- Pool from 9 to 12

You had a unit that NO ONE used because it was too hard to earn its cost/too micro intensive and for some freaking ridiculous reason the following decisions were made:

Nerf its modifer vs suppressed/pinned units (Uh...why?)
Nerf its medium range damage to AVRE's (uh...why?)
Increase its accuracy (uh...why?)
Increase its pool (to stop how completely [never] often this AVRE is spammed?)


These changes made completely no sense. It's the perfect example of why only active players should be on the BT instead of guys who play once in a blue moon and who don't use the units they nerf. Otherwise you get a potentially fun and effective unit (albeit one that is hard to use correctly) like the AVRE ruined into oblivion.

Right now I'm the only guy I know who regularly has an AVRE in his company (bolt has pretty much taken them all out of his because of how bad they have become). And rarely do you see anyone ever earn the unit's cost back.