AVRE

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[Mysthalin]

Almost all weapons trigger reaction behavior unless we changed it in EIR. I just used a howitzer as an example as it triggers one of the strongest reactions due to the higher value in that department.

Small arms has no effect unless you've suppressed the enemy (you SHOULD lose the unit if you don't retreat it when suppressed in front of an AVRE. How is this even an issue?). The lowest popcap non-small arms weapons would be:

Bofors at 4 (chances are it will kill the inf before the AVRE does. Even if it doesn't... not exactly feasible to be screaming about losses while charging an entrenched position head-on. Retreat is always there if you're too scared to lose the unit).

ATG at 5 - only way it effectively "flinches" the unit is if it hits a squad member. At the minimal chance for this to happen, given the fire-time and travel time of the AVRE shell and the reload time of the ATG I'd be very surprised for this to happen at all, even as a fluke, let alone for this to be a systematically important issue.

25pdr at 7 - read my previous post. If you're getting accurately hit by a 25 pdr AND get yourself shot by an AVRE at the same time you SHOULD die. I mean seriously, 15 popcap and 360 fuel of artillery based units (180s and 105s cooldowns each) firing at a flimsy infantry unit that is within sight range should bloody well fucking die if it does not retreat. It's bad design to allow life at this point, not bad design to allow death. You don't expect an infantry squad to survive a direct V1 hit. Why should this be any different?


At the end of the day it all begs for a simple question... Why exactly is it a bad thing if a short-ranged, ridiculously expensive artilery piece happens to kill infantry units with a single hit? I'm seriously not seeing what the hell is wrong with that.

[pqumsieh]

Myst, some of the behavior values are hard coded into the game as part of the squad plan, they aren't exposed within the AE.

Regarding your final statement, I think the AVRE should kills stationary units but I personally believe it should be more of a skill shot to kill moving targets. If this is not happening in some cases, then it is not intentional and likely an oversight on our part.

If our conclusion is that the unit currently is too difficult to use, that too much luck is needed rather than skill, than I am all for some changes.

[AmPM]

Small arms has no effect unless you've suppressed the enemy (you SHOULD lose the unit if you don't retreat it when suppressed in front of an AVRE. How is this even an issue?). The lowest popcap non-small arms weapons would be:

Bofors at 4 (chances are it will kill the inf before the AVRE does. Even if it doesn't... not exactly feasible to be screaming about losses while charging an entrenched position head-on. Retreat is always there if you're too scared to lose the unit).

ATG at 5 - only way it effectively "flinches" the unit is if it hits a squad member. At the minimal chance for this to happen, given the fire-time and travel time of the AVRE shell and the reload time of the ATG I'd be very surprised for this to happen at all, even as a fluke, let alone for this to be a systematically important issue.

25pdr at 7 - read my previous post. If you're getting accurately hit by a 25 pdr AND get yourself shot by an AVRE at the same time you SHOULD die. I mean seriously, 15 popcap and 360 fuel of artillery based units (180s and 105s cooldowns each) firing at a flimsy infantry unit that is within sight range should bloody well fucking die if it does not retreat. It's bad design to allow life at this point, not bad design to allow death. You don't expect an infantry squad to survive a direct V1 hit. Why should this be any different?


At the end of the day it all begs for a simple question... Why exactly is it a bad thing if a short-ranged, ridiculously expensive artilery piece happens to kill infantry units with a single hit? I'm seriously not seeing what the hell is wrong with that.

If you are worried about insta gibbing vet (Vet being the name of the game afterall) just give it good damage vs everything, lower damage modifier vs infantry, and insane suppression.

Otherwise, I haven't seen an AVRE in use in a long time, and I never expect to see one, they are just bad.

[Mysthalin]

Myst, some of the behavior values are hard coded into the game as part of the squad plan, they aren't exposed within the AE.

Regarding your final statement, I think the AVRE should kills stationary units but I personally believe it should be more of a skill shot to kill moving targets. If this is not happening in some cases, then it is not intentional and likely an oversight on our part.

If our conclusion is that the unit currently is too difficult to use, that too much luck is needed rather than skill, than I am all for some changes.

I know how the behavioral values work, and that's one bit of EiRR that does not require any stats whatsoever. Anyone who's played the game should be perfectly aware of what makes units "flinch" and become unresponsive and what doesn't. I listed the units that do it for the least amount of pop. All else is just you sticking to an argument that "sounds cool" but is fundamentally equivalent to the way OMGMod conducted things when it came to balance "It's like this because we said it is so, and no, you can't look at the hard code to prove us to be lying scumbags".

Not only is it completely retardedly beyond all measure horribly underpowered at hitting anything and doing damage - let alone skill-shoting moving targets it's also extremely EXPENSIVE. We're talking about a unit that's essentially a StuH with slightly health and a ridiculous 105second cooldown attached to it's marginally better shell. And you get this wonderful bundle of joy for a mere 240 Fuel.

Yet again, just balance it against the StuH. The StuH is it's closest counterpart. The unit costing more is warranted due to its higher health pool (and slower speed finalises that bit of balance) - but the gun should be at least EQUIVALENT in power. Not marginally better at the splash with a 10-15 times (depending on StuH range) longer reload time, which makes it about 5 times worse. Honestly, how is this so hard to understand. I'd be happy if the AVRE just got a StuH gun slapped on top of it instead of the useless pile of wank it currently boasts.

[skaffa]

Apply whatever buffs u decide to Sturmpanzer too pls.

[aeroblade56]

I see more sturmpanzers then avres :p

[skaffa]

vet 3 -30s recharge doesnt seem to work for sturmp

[tank130]

I thought suppressed units received less damage - is that correct or am I mistaken. In that video, both sets of infantry were suppressed.

[aeroblade56]

I thought suppressed units received less damage - is that correct or am I mistaken. In that video, both sets of infantry were suppressed.

Yes but i thought the AVRE had better damage vs suppressed units?

[TheWindCriesMary]

- vCoH has 0.5 damage/acc vs pinned targets (Good chance to miss them altogether) where EiRR has full damage/acc vs pinned targets. Damage/acc is full vs suppressed targets on both weapons

Guys Hicks literally covered this exact thing in the previous page in regards to the AVRE and its damage to supressed units

[tank130]

Guys Hicks literally covered this exact thing in the previous page in regards to the AVRE and its damage to supressed units

Ya...... guess I missed that in the walls of text, unrelated rants, and long winded bullshit. But I found it now, thanks for the hand 

[XIIcorps]

I don't want to see the avre mimmic the stuh, 95mm crom pretty well does that.

I would like to see the avre be that one unit it used to be, where it would fire once every minute, minute and a half and decimate what ever was unlucky/ stupid enough to not get away from it.

I mean seriously we wait 2 mins for each 4-5 shell barrage from an arty piece and that's fine.
But a unit that fires one shell doesn't deserve the right to do equal are greater damage then the fore mentioned, nigga please.

[deadbolt]

and long winded bullshit.

iseewutyoudidthere.jpg

[MissileJoe]

Tankedit: Unrelated Pics removed