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Author Topic: XP requirements for better or worse  (Read 6445 times)
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PonySlaystation Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4136



« on: November 27, 2013, 10:24:35 am »

Since the XP requirements were increased a while ago in patch 0.8.22, it seems like the effects of veterancy have become negligible except for a few select units. It seems to have become more of a weakness than a strength and maintaining vet is never considered a priority, fighting to the death or backcapping is more effective than retreating your last man because it takes too many games to get vet. The investment is never worth the payoff.

While some might say it removes the obstacle of people being too defensive with their vet and I agree to some extent, but it also removes one of the core aspects of EIR, which is persistence, units that survive can become veterans and fight in more battles. But now only heavier tanks and artillery can become veterans and reap the benefits and the rest are not worthwhile keeping.

Hell, there is only a single vet 3 grenadier in the entire mod and the vet 2 grenadiers are spread among lots of different companies, because at max you'll have a single vet 2 infantry in your company despite playing a high number of games. The small buff you get for keeping a unit alive for so many subsequent games, is not worthwhile.

It does however work the other way around too. If XP requirements are set too low like before the patch then people will be able to gain veterancy faster than they could ever lose it. That's not optimal either. A compromise is needed.
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ick312 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 534


« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2013, 10:43:48 am »

pony,

i cant tell when it changed. But its also the metagame, that makes it not possible to maintain vet. Anotherthing is the offmaps - there are certain undogdeable offmaps like the brit leutnanent ones that simply erase entire squads.


i forgot to mention there are only certain kombinations allowing to maintain vet: like smoke + ABs, inf HTs + Flammenwerfer, or 4 Man kch with fanaticism. The rest is simply to weak.

But the mainpoint is the fast metagame. Its often better to suicide a unit and damage the opponent then keeping the vet and retreat it
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 10:50:16 am by ick312 » Logged

I don't know Wind, that whole 21 virgins thing kinda peaked my interest a little .......
From fucking kids to fucking christ, jesus heartmann. Just stop already you filthy monster, you are only making it worse
terrapinsrock Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1009



« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2013, 10:51:01 am »

brit leutnanent ones that simply erase entire squads.

It's actually the Brit Captain offmap (FOO), and it's not that hard to dodge with infantry actually.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 10:59:59 am by terrapinsrock » Logged

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aeroblade56 Offline
Development
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Posts: 3871



« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2013, 10:59:58 am »

not compared to the instant arty barrage of defensive.
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You are welcome to your opinion.

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PonySlaystation Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4136



« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2013, 11:21:14 am »

ick,

Artillery has always been able to kill infantry by surprise. The difference is before the patch if your units did well they would become veterans and they would remain veterans as long as they survived. The problem was that units gained vet too quickly and players gained more vet than they lost. Now it's the other way around. People can't maintain vet because the number of games the unit has to survive to become a veteran is so high that it's not worthwhile and If the payoff is this small then the effect becomes negligible. People choose to not maintain vet and keeping vet is considered a disadvantage.
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calbanes Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 89


« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2013, 11:56:47 am »

not compared to the instant arty barrage of defensive.

+1
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calbanes Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 89


« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2013, 12:01:23 pm »

In my opinion the current system is fine, it is not normal to see on field so many vets and should be like that in the future. May be if you want to make people try to get more vet units, the buffs should be increased to make vet units much more worth and attractive to achieve and try to keep them alive.

Apart of this, high veteran units are magnets to all kind of offmaps, rockets, arty and suicide vet hunting charges from the other side, this makes veterancy something to consider.
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nikomas Offline
Shameless Perv
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Posts: 4286



« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2013, 12:47:33 pm »

Vetwhore harder  Wink
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Quote from: PonySlaystation
The officer is considerably better than a riflemen squad at carrying weapons. Officers have good accuracy so they will hit most targets.
terrapinsrock Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1009



« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2013, 12:54:36 pm »

Vetwhore like Volsky and Niko Wink
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XIIcorps Offline
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Posts: 2558



« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2013, 01:38:11 pm »

Vetwhore like Heartman and Heartman.
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ick312 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 534


« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2013, 04:23:03 pm »

just had a match - well my Stormies were already running with blitzkrieg when FOO was dropped on them
-------------- 1 man came back
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XIIcorps Offline
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« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2013, 04:28:11 pm »

Will watch vid later but ick foo is one of the easiest offmaps to dodge.
if you see a captn you know theres a foo waiting.
then once that smoke dropps you have about 4 seconds to move.
yes sometimes the drift of the arty will still catch you.

But more often then not if you do it right youll loose maybe a man of the 10-15 blob.

One thing that noone stands a chance with is defensive 280mm barrage, shits instant noodles.
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nikomas Offline
Shameless Perv
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Posts: 4286



« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2013, 05:00:35 pm »

You know what drops faster? Wher offier barrage, and he doesn't have to stand there like an idiot while doing it Wink

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NightRain Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3908



« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2013, 01:53:44 am »

You know what drops faster? Wher offier barrage, and he doesn't have to stand there like an idiot while doing it Wink



Officer barrage does not suppress though. It is the first shell suppression that gets the men killed. Wehr Officer barrage has large scatter which makes it a good area bombardment though, not so good single unit wiper, more of a blob counter.
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XIIcorps Offline
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« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2013, 01:59:06 am »

Officer barrage does not suppress though. It is the first shell suppression that gets the men killed. Wehr Officer barrage has large scatter which makes it a good area bombardment though, not so good single unit wiper, more of a blob counter.
it doesn't need suppression, its damage alone is enough to gib any infantry group or support weapon in cover or garrison.
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PonySlaystation Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4136



« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2013, 08:20:40 am »

stop off-topic discussion.
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Ahnungsloser Offline
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Posts: 1447



« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2014, 04:52:51 pm »

ick,

Artillery has always been able to kill infantry by surprise. The difference is before the patch if your units did well they would become veterans and they would remain veterans as long as they survived. The problem was that units gained vet too quickly and players gained more vet than they lost. Now it's the other way around. People can't maintain vet because the number of games the unit has to survive to become a veteran is so high that it's not worthwhile and If the payoff is this small then the effect becomes negligible. People choose to not maintain vet and keeping vet is considered a disadvantage.


Which is not negative. It seems that it's now hard to vet whore and the possiblity of getting roflstomped by retarded vet >=3 units from the opponent is much lower. On top of that veterancy is now a real thing and something special and not common anymore. (?)
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PonySlaystation Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4136



« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2014, 09:53:36 pm »

I've started to notice that without doctrines it's considerably easier to maintain vet. It seems much more balanced, like how the game is supposed to be played. The other benefit is that doctrine specalizations tend to well, specalize too much and many units become forgotten because they don't have enough buffs. The game is considerably more balanced without doctrines. It's like a blessing from the sky.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 10:12:02 pm by PonySlaystation » Logged
Unkn0wn Offline
No longer retired
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Posts: 18379


« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2014, 03:20:36 am »

I'll definitely agree it's more balanced though I'm not sure your assessment of it being considerably easier to maintain vet is indeed correct. A lot of doctrines features just as many offensive as they do defensive buffs and one would think that overall off-map and onmap artillery, which are still present in the game, are the biggest threat to infantry vet in particular.
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PonySlaystation Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4136



« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2014, 03:59:37 am »

hehe, good one unkn0wn, nearly all buffs are offensive: tank reapers, fanaticism, the red devils, fortress europe, HEAT rounds, operation overlord. Those are just some of the t4s on the top of my head.
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