XP requirements for better or worse

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[PonySlaystation]

Since the XP requirements were increased a while ago in patch 0.8.22, it seems like the effects of veterancy have become negligible except for a few select units. It seems to have become more of a weakness than a strength and maintaining vet is never considered a priority, fighting to the death or backcapping is more effective than retreating your last man because it takes too many games to get vet. The investment is never worth the payoff.

While some might say it removes the obstacle of people being too defensive with their vet and I agree to some extent, but it also removes one of the core aspects of EIR, which is persistence, units that survive can become veterans and fight in more battles. But now only heavier tanks and artillery can become veterans and reap the benefits and the rest are not worthwhile keeping.

Hell, there is only a single vet 3 grenadier in the entire mod and the vet 2 grenadiers are spread among lots of different companies, because at max you'll have a single vet 2 infantry in your company despite playing a high number of games. The small buff you get for keeping a unit alive for so many subsequent games, is not worthwhile.

It does however work the other way around too. If XP requirements are set too low like before the patch then people will be able to gain veterancy faster than they could ever lose it. That's not optimal either. A compromise is needed.

[ick312]

pony,

i cant tell when it changed. But its also the metagame, that makes it not possible to maintain vet. Anotherthing is the offmaps - there are certain undogdeable offmaps like the brit leutnanent ones that simply erase entire squads.


i forgot to mention there are only certain kombinations allowing to maintain vet: like smoke + ABs, inf HTs + Flammenwerfer, or 4 Man kch with fanaticism. The rest is simply to weak.

But the mainpoint is the fast metagame. Its often better to suicide a unit and damage the opponent then keeping the vet and retreat it

[terrapinsrock]

brit leutnanent ones that simply erase entire squads.

It's actually the Brit Captain offmap (FOO), and it's not that hard to dodge with infantry actually.

[aeroblade56]

not compared to the instant arty barrage of defensive.

[PonySlaystation]

ick,

Artillery has always been able to kill infantry by surprise. The difference is before the patch if your units did well they would become veterans and they would remain veterans as long as they survived. The problem was that units gained vet too quickly and players gained more vet than they lost. Now it's the other way around. People can't maintain vet because the number of games the unit has to survive to become a veteran is so high that it's not worthwhile and If the payoff is this small then the effect becomes negligible. People choose to not maintain vet and keeping vet is considered a disadvantage.

[calbanes]

not compared to the instant arty barrage of defensive.

+1

[calbanes]

In my opinion the current system is fine, it is not normal to see on field so many vets and should be like that in the future. May be if you want to make people try to get more vet units, the buffs should be increased to make vet units much more worth and attractive to achieve and try to keep them alive.

Apart of this, high veteran units are magnets to all kind of offmaps, rockets, arty and suicide vet hunting charges from the other side, this makes veterancy something to consider.

[nikomas]

Vetwhore harder 

[terrapinsrock]

Vetwhore like Volsky and Niko

[XIIcorps]

Vetwhore like Heartman and Heartman.

[ick312]

just had a match - well my Stormies were already running with blitzkrieg when FOO was dropped on them
-------------- 1 man came back

[XIIcorps]

Will watch vid later but ick foo is one of the easiest offmaps to dodge.
if you see a captn you know theres a foo waiting.
then once that smoke dropps you have about 4 seconds to move.
yes sometimes the drift of the arty will still catch you.

But more often then not if you do it right youll loose maybe a man of the 10-15 blob.

One thing that noone stands a chance with is defensive 280mm barrage, shits instant noodles.

[nikomas]

You know what drops faster? Wher offier barrage, and he doesn't have to stand there like an idiot while doing it

[NightRain]

You know what drops faster? Wher offier barrage, and he doesn't have to stand there like an idiot while doing it

Officer barrage does not suppress though. It is the first shell suppression that gets the men killed. Wehr Officer barrage has large scatter which makes it a good area bombardment though, not so good single unit wiper, more of a blob counter.

[XIIcorps]

Officer barrage does not suppress though. It is the first shell suppression that gets the men killed. Wehr Officer barrage has large scatter which makes it a good area bombardment though, not so good single unit wiper, more of a blob counter.

it doesn't need suppression, its damage alone is enough to gib any infantry group or support weapon in cover or garrison.

[PonySlaystation]

stop off-topic discussion.

[Ahnungsloser]

ick,

Artillery has always been able to kill infantry by surprise. The difference is before the patch if your units did well they would become veterans and they would remain veterans as long as they survived. The problem was that units gained vet too quickly and players gained more vet than they lost. Now it's the other way around. People can't maintain vet because the number of games the unit has to survive to become a veteran is so high that it's not worthwhile and If the payoff is this small then the effect becomes negligible. People choose to not maintain vet and keeping vet is considered a disadvantage.

Which is not negative. It seems that it's now hard to vet whore and the possiblity of getting roflstomped by retarded vet >=3 units from the opponent is much lower. On top of that veterancy is now a real thing and something special and not common anymore. (?)

[PonySlaystation]

I've started to notice that without doctrines it's considerably easier to maintain vet. It seems much more balanced, like how the game is supposed to be played. The other benefit is that doctrine specalizations tend to well, specalize too much and many units become forgotten because they don't have enough buffs. The game is considerably more balanced without doctrines. It's like a blessing from the sky.

[Unkn0wn]

I'll definitely agree it's more balanced though I'm not sure your assessment of it being considerably easier to maintain vet is indeed correct. A lot of doctrines features just as many offensive as they do defensive buffs and one would think that overall off-map and onmap artillery, which are still present in the game, are the biggest threat to infantry vet in particular.

[PonySlaystation]

hehe, good one unkn0wn, nearly all buffs are offensive: tank reapers, fanaticism, the red devils, fortress europe, HEAT rounds, operation overlord. Those are just some of the t4s on the top of my head.