0.7.9.Z.8 Patch Notes

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[tank130]

General
- All Officer squads restricted to 1 weapon pickup
- Some UI name fixes, please report if you see further ones.

SCAR:
- Halftrack deployment with upgrades fixed
- Fixed airborne spawntime (default 30 seconds without any doctrine abilities) added


American
- First pass of Reward T57 Light Mobile Howitzer made available, further balancing probably required
- Calliope DRR conflict fixed
- Some US Reward Vehicles granted missing RE bottom T4 sprint aura.

SCAR:
- US secured landing zones smoke ability added
- Drift completely disabled when using secured landing zones
- Night raid callin time increasement fixed


Commonwealth
- Lit-Up Accuracy buff removed, Sight Area Increased, Price decreased from 20 > 10 Mu.
- Scoped Enfield damage dropped from 20 > 15
- Riflegrenade range dropped back down to 35, doctrines that increase RG damage dropped from +20% > +10%
- Arty emplacement get 150 health on recrew removed

- Commonwealth vehicle cover movement modifiers brought in line with US
Firefly         - Light 0.7 > 1/Heavy 0.3 > 0.65
Churchill      - Light 0.7 > 1/Heavy 0.3 > 0.65
Comet        - Light 0.7 > 1/Heavy 0.3 > 0.65
Command    - Light 0.7 > 1/Heavy 0.3 > 0.65
Cromwell     - Light 0.7 > 1/Heavy 0.3 > 0.65
Crusader     - Light 0.7 > 1/Heavy 0.3 > 0.65
Bren Carrier - Light 0.7 > 0.8/Heavy 0.3 > 0.5
Kangaroo    - Light 0.7 > 0.8/Heavy 0.3 > 0.5
M8 Scott    - Light 0.7 > 0.8/Heavy 0.3 > 0.5
Staghound  - Light 0.7 > 0.8/Heavy 0.3 > 0.5
Tetrarch     - Light 0.7 > 0.8/Heavy 0.3 > 0.5
Stuart        - Light 0.7 > 0.8/Heavy 0.3 > 0.5

Wehrmacht
- Elite Grenadiers grenade ability fixed
- Terror sniper sprint finally removed for good


Panzer Elite
- Two Separate Luftwaffe Quick Response UI conflicts cleared up
- Old Undocumented Fortress Europe buff removed
- 234_3_Stummel Splash AoE increased to match the GMC
- 50mm HT mu increase to 140.
- Faulty SE Incendiary Barrage removed from the Wespe, It was never supposed to have it

- PE Vehicle Cover Movement Modifiers Brought In Line With Whermacht.
222_Light AC        - Light 0.7 > 0.8/Heavy 0.3 > 0.5
223_Light AC        - Light 0.7 > 0.8/Heavy 0.3 > 0.5
234_Stummel        - Light 0.7 > 0.8/Heavy 0.3 > 0.5
250_Light_ATHT     - Light 0.7 > 0.8/Heavy 0.3 > 0.5
250_Vampire          - Light 0.7 > 0.8/Heavy 0.3 > 0.5
251_50mm_ATHT     - Light 0.5 > 0.8/Heavy 0.3 > 0.5
251_Munitions        - Light 0.7 > 0.8/Heavy 0.3 > 0.5
Hotchkiss          - Light 0.7 > 0.8/Heavy 0.3 > 0.5
Marder III         - Light 0.7 > 0.8/Heavy 0.3 > 0.5
Panzer II            - Light 0.7 > 0.8/Heavy 0.3 > 0.5
Bergetiger         - Light 0.7 > 1/Heavy 0.3 > 0.65
Hetzer             - Light 0.7 > 1/Heavy 0.3 > 0.65
Jagdpanther     - Light 0.7 > 1/Heavy 0.3 > 0.65
Panzer IV IST        - Light 0.7 > 1/Heavy 0.3 > 0.65
Wirbelwind           - Light 0.7 > 1/Heavy 0.3 > 0.65

SCAR:
- Blow the bridges callin time increasement fixed

[aeroblade56]

Commonwealth
- Lit-Up Accuracy buff removed, Sight Area Increased, Price decreased from 20 > 10 Mu.
- Scoped Enfield damage dropped from 20 > 15
- Riflegrenade range dropped back down to 35, doctrines that increase RG damage dropped from +20% > +10%
- Arty emplacement get 150 health on recrew removed

the single
the double
the triple
the quadruple nerf

Dev edit: unrelated pic removed

[TheWindCriesMary]

the single
the double
the triple
the quadruple nerf

Dev edit: unrelated pic removed

It's actually 5 nerfs (2 nerfs to the rifle grenades in one line). It might be 6 if they also reduced the increased AOE from 20% to 10%.

 I'm not sure how many times this mod has to learn that knee jerk over-reacting and nerfing something multiple times at once instead of testing and learning in increments is a really, really stupid way to try and balance. Do we all have amnesia? Do we live in some weird Memento reality where we can't process new learnings? The pendulum of bad methodology just keeps swinging for eternity.

[XIIcorps]

It's actually 5 nerfs (2 nerfs to the rifle grenades in one line). It might be 6 if they also reduced the increased AOE from 20% to 10%.

 I'm not sure how many times this mod has to learn that knee jerk over-reacting and nerfing something multiple times at once instead of testing and learning in increments is a really, really stupid way to try and balance. Do we all have amnesia? Do we live in some weird Memento reality where we can't process new learnings? The pendulum of bad methodology just keeps swinging for eternity.

Your not wrong there wind, again riflenades are nerfed back into uselessness.
Scoped enfields ruined.
Litup half nerfed.

And still nothing happening with the Church MK6, or Kangaroo.

WTF am I supposed to do with my 2 roo cards ffs ? if your going to keep it as a broken ass unit atleast make it doctrine specific unlock for RE

[NightRain]

Finally a patch. Dem nerfs though.


Lit up just lost its primary purpose and will prolly fall down into "Why should I?" Cathegory in the future.

Emplacement arty health nerf is a welcome thing though, it has plagued the world for sometime now.

Lil Stummel got its AoE buffed, a fashinating thing to see, but did they reduce the firing speed? That thing will bring rage in the future.

Scoped enfields seem to be now long ranged Grenadier rifles, not sure if bad or not, needs further checking and reviews.

Riflenades are now a questionable thing. Indeed they were quite ridicilous in numbers with a range that was  essencially a tank destroyer range. Now their range is still higher than average grenadethrow yet they still can be fired when stopped, thus they retain their full accuracy even with just 35 range which is rifle firing range. No longer kiting with riflenades, but they won't be two shooting volksquads anymore.


How Come the RGD's are still showing the old values for Riflegrenades? Range 45 and damage 42 on rifletraining and rest are 40 and min damage 35. Ah right, new riflegrenade is la-fiere_baker_rifle_grenade.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Your not wrong there wind, again riflenades are nerfed back into uselessness.
Scoped enfields ruined.
Litup half nerfed.

Frankly rifle grenades needed to be adjusted (incrementally, mind you, not in the insane way they have been in this patch), and I'm not convinced they're now "useless." With that being said, there are multiple things in the mod at the moment that were equally as good (aka too good) as rifle nades could be and they were somehow completely overlooked (or nerfed so slightly as to be comical by comparison next to RCA).

 This would normally be fine in a small patch if not for the fact that RCA was nerfed 5 times. This is the kind of methodology that screams clumsy lack of basic rigor or careful groundwork.


We need to be better than this. We need to start learning from the dozens of times that this type of balance methodology has caused more work, more problems and more constant need to correct over-compensating multiple nerfs. You cannot balance this way.

It's time to start thinking and applying some basic diligence to how decisions are made.

[EIRRMod]

<rant snip>
It's time to start thinking.

As always, a wonderful and insightful post wind.

If we could balance nerfs on each faction equally for every patch, well that would be peachy - but you'd be waiting even longer.

We are addressing issues as they pop up in the meta game, and some things will be missed, and, some over or under nerfed.  The problem is, there is no test bed for the data to be tested on - thats what playing each patch will find for us.

If something is glaringly obvious, but we missed it - oops. We're human, and at least doing something.
Discussing an issue to DEATH is all well and fine, but its in the implementation and testing 'in the field' so to speak that will ultimately reveal our patches for the future.

[NightRain]

To be fair, the old riflenade was uffpuffomg weapon. On Open terrain it has 20% more damage on targets with 25% more accuracy. Basically it had 50 damage. Thats over half of grenadier hitpoints(80) and nearly kills a volksgrenadier model. (55 hp per men). That is why 45 range riflenades basically wiping squads was retarded. Not because of a single grenade, but theres 2 of them basically meaning flopping 101 damage at infantry from range. That basically can wipe up a bunched up unit or at least take out 1-2 models per volley.

[XIIcorps]

Can I ask why tho, no buffs for anything ?

only nerfs

[TheWindCriesMary]

As always, a wonderful and insightful post wind.

If we could balance nerfs on each faction equally for every patch, well that would be peachy - but you'd be waiting even longer.

That's the whole point! Over-nerfing and over-buffing makes MORE work for you guys, not less. As a result you end up having to do MORE patches instead of fewer. As a result people get more upset when there is a delay between patches because they are dying for the fixes to the mistakes that were made in the last patch. It means your team is forever swinging a pendulum wildly and balance is a never ending task.

The worst part is, you'd think in a mod where resources/dev team time is as precious and finite as EiR that you guys would HATE this never ending self-propagating over-nerf/buff and revise/undo cycle. You'd think you would be the biggest champions of slow, steady and careful incremental balance in the interest of saving time in the long run and freeing up resources. It fundamentally makes no sense that you don't seem to be.

Balancing things in small INCREMENTS so that any mistakes are not big problems that need a new patch urgently to be fixed is how you save time and make the mod better. This has literally been something people have been saying for years.

People don't have a problem waiting for patches if they're moderate and careful. It's when there is a delay between over-reactionary knee-jerk patches that people get pissed off because all of a sudden doctrines become way too good or way too bad in volatile and sporadic surges.

It's bad  methodology and we've been suffering from it for way too long to have an excuse anymore.

[nikomas]

For all the complains about it, I'm surprised nobody noticed it.

- Halftrack deployment with upgrades fixed

You guys realize this fixes should fix the infinite repairs on all halftracks? THE WITCH IS DEAD!

[Uglysori]

For all the complains about it, I'm surprised nobody noticed it.

- Halftrack deployment with upgrades fixed

You guys realize this fixes should fix the infinite repairs on all halftracks? THE WITCH IS DEAD!

Yup HTs are totally fixed.  Rapid deployment to be had for all and no more infinite repairs.

[aeroblade56]

For all the complains about it, I'm surprised nobody noticed it.

- Halftrack deployment with upgrades fixed

You guys realize this fixes should fix the infinite repairs on all halftracks? THE WITCH IS DEAD!

you mean the witch you abused for weeks?. or the 50mm halftrack abuse witch?. i forgot which witch was whichbitch.

[TheWindCriesMary]

you mean the witch you abused for weeks?. or the 50mm halftrack abuse witch?. i forgot which witch was whichbitch.

Dev edit: unrelated pic removed

[chefarzt]

SCAR:
- US secured landing zones smoke ability added
- Drift completely disabled when using secured landing zones
- Night raid callin time increasement fixed

Woot, finally. Nice.

[Unkn0wn]

Range buffs on riflenades or any weapon shouldn't have even been a thing to begin with to be honest.

Can't really comment on the rest...

[deadbolt]

Dev edit: unrelated pic removed

rofl, also:

apologies for poor english, i am russia

when were you when brits dies

i was at home changing car wheels

nikolai call me

'brits is kill'

'no'

[tank130]

You'd think you would be the biggest champions of slow, steady and careful incremental balance in the interest of saving time in the long run and freeing up resources. It fundamentally makes no sense that you don't seem to be.

Yes and no.

Careful balance changes - yes, but the rest is incorrect.

For the past 2-3 years we have worked with a group of people in the balance team. Those people come and go, the Balance team leads come and go. The one thing that remained consistent is the process.

The process was groups of people analyzing stats, game play, ideas, opinions, theory crafting, etc for pages and pages in a thread all based on theory. After weeks and weeks of discussions, a final decision is voted on and the changes are made. The patch it sent out.

Every patch we make; half the community bitches about the balance changes and the other half praises them. After a month of play testing, sometime the balance change is the right change and sometimes it has to be amended. Simple as that. With out a full time gaming environment to test changes, then balance decisions are theory crafting at best.

Rather then waste resources and time analyzing the living shit out of something, we are now streamlining the process and going straight to live testing - that's you the community.

People don't have a problem waiting for patches if they're moderate and careful.

Wrong - people ask for patches all the time regardless of what the state of balance is. The community is always looking for some type of change to keep them interested.

It’s bad methodology and we've been suffering from it for way too long to have an excuse anymore.

You are right, it is bad methodology to continue doing it the way we have done it for the past 2-3 years. It is a colossal waste of time and resources to have a group of people over analyze the simplest of details and make decisions with out live, higher volume play testing.

As a result people get more upset when there is a delay between patches because they are dying for the fixes to the mistakes that were made in the last patch.

And that is changing. Instead of everyone waiting months for patches because the Balance team is carrying on to their 9th page of discussion about one unit........... we have a quick consensus of ideas, pick the most common or agreed upon and play test it. If it fails, we try another solution.

Let me clear up a misconception you have:
I can patch every single day. I can patch more then everyday. As long as I am sitting at my computer I can patch all day long.

RGD balance changes literally take Nikomas 15 minutes or less (in most cases) from the start of the change to creating the SGA files for me to patch.

The delay in production is not the coding and patching when we are discussing RGD related balance changes. The delay is the sloooooooowwwwww and meeeeeethooooooooooooooodical process of forever analyzing the living shit out of change. That and reading overstated long winded posts by some of the community members 

Nope, done with that shit and lousy methodology. From now on we make faster decisions and play test them. Test them for a couple of weeks to see if anyone is capable of exploiting the shit out it *cough*riflenades*cough* and then patch a fix if needed.

[terrapinsrock]

Can I ask why tho, no buffs for anything ?

only nerfs

Actually Stummel got buffed.

[nikomas]

Actually Stummel got buffed.

XII has Brit tunnel vission, that's all he's looking at here.