RRs compared to other HHat

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[ick312]

This thread is comparing the RRs to Shrek/zook

We start with the accuracy table:
                                RR               Shrek            Zook
Long Range               0,35               0,35             0,35
Medium Range            0,6                0,75             0,6
Short Range                1                   1                 1
(interesting about the shrek is the following: it has -15% accuracy vs LVs )

Damage                   2x80             150                90
Values of niko confirmed
Penetration stays on all ranges 1 (it doesnt decrease the penetration depending on range)

Penetrationchance of RRs
ostwind                    100%
P4 (+skirt)                 75%
Panther (+skirt)          55%
Tiger                         75%
KT                            60%
JP                             60%

Penetration of Shrek
m10                          100%            
Sherman                     85%
churchchill                   50%
Pershing                      45%

ok and here we got the problem:

The scatter  is basically responsible for RRs hitting on long range those big tanks. Technically they are always hitting. Moving LVs (small and fast targets) are having a chance to get away depending on the range like all HHat, cause there is only a 35% chance to hit on long range.
So basically RRs are hitting Tanks always and penetrating them mostly. As you can see does the RRs are having execellent Penetration Values vs Tanks (even better then the Shrek)

And here we got the problem: A Handheld AT that is ALWAYS hitting and practically ALWAYS Penetrating and dealing the same Damage as a Shrek.

Well thats the problem. About RRs.

No other HHat is as good as the RR. It cuts Axis Tanks like a glowing knife through butter.

PS: cause of their scatter they can fight reliably in smoke vs tanks and sniper atgs

[ick312]

Ok here is a more clear comparison:
Chances to to deal (full) Damage to the tank.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AncgcJ_NSxU8dEtiUXo5R1Y3MV8yZ2Zyemt6NGVvbWc#gid=0

As we can see the Shrek is for most parts HIGHLY outperformed. Its no problem if the RR is better. But if the RR is  on long range between 40%-60% better. then there is clearly sth unbalanced.

These are the naked numbers. There is not the plattform considered, fire up, hits through smoke.
Its simply a HHat that has no downsides and is simply by the naked numbers far better.

Play practice shows that aswell

[aeroblade56]

Penetrationchance of RRs
ostwind                    100%
P4 (+skirt)                 75%
Panther (+skirt)          55%
Tiger                         75%
KT                            60%
JP                             60%

What is the penetration of a piat vs those?

And what is the penetration vs a maus, jagdtiger,tiger ace?.


u also left out jumbo.

[XIIcorps]

All I got out of this was RR's are one of 3 effective counters to my IHT coy spam please nerf.

[ick312]

What is the penetration of a piat vs those?

And what is the penetration vs a maus, jagdtiger,tiger ace?.


u also left out jumbo.

good point

Let me check the values

Ok penetration values for Maus, JT, TA, KT
Technically those are Tiger armor with a modifier
maus 0,65; JT 0,8; KT 0,8; TA (got no modifier)
Resulting in the following penetrationchances:
Maus 50%, JT 60%,  KT 60%, TA 75%
 
JP has 60% chance to be penetrated


So you asked for Piat values:

Well first of all it deals 90 damage. So 180 in total with 2 of them.
The accuracy table is the same as ALL other HHat.
Penetrationtable is interesting cause it doubles its Penetration in medium and close range.
its penetration tables are a catastrophy for example:
10% on panther (with skirts)
20% on tiger
33% on P4
BUT it deals up 60% more damage depending on the tank (135 damage against the tiger).
So technically its doubeling it chance to penetrate in med/short range and since its shot in a ballistic way it got a chance of make a rear hit.
Important for this is to consider that the scatter makes also here the difference. If you are not hitting with accuracy then the projectile might collide with the tank or drop on it cause of its scatter.

the jumbo gave me some trouble:
the type jumbo exists but non of the weapons have an entry on it so i cant tell. But i saw that shrek never penetrated frontally

All I got out of this was RR's are one of 3 effective counters to my IHT coy spam please nerf.

actually. It was more a problem vs my tiger coy or if i encountered smoke spam + RRs. I had it long on my heart.
But i can understand that you are not capable of understanding reasonable problems. And now do me a favour and stay out of serious threads or grow up, learn manners and open up your mind.

[XIIcorps]

So the problem with rr's is
That they pen a tiger ? Fuck op right there

[nikomas]

I would just like to correct some values here so people wont leave missinformed.

Smokeshooters deal 78.125 Damage per direct hit, not 62.5
Swarmrockets deal 93.75 Damage per direct hit, not 75.
Homing Missiles deal 150 damage per direct hit, not 120.
The Giant Greande does indeed to 90 damage.

I'll leave it to you to dig up why the damage values are like this since you're having fun with corsix.

But i saw that shrek never penetrated frontally

This is why we don't rely on what people "See", the chance is 40% rounded up. Jumbo armor is based on skierted panther armor with a few modifications. Either way, that's definitly not "never penetrates frontally".

[rolcsika0128]

RRs are good just the way they are. just leave them alone ick

[hans]

Actually the rr should not have these high penetration chances. Put it line with shreks? The pershing has good chances to survive shreks.

An interesting point though, can we see a price comparison aswell? I think u can have more shreks than rrs right?

[XIIcorps]

Actually the rr should not have these high penetration chances. Put it line with shreks? The pershing has good chances to survive shreks.

An interesting point though, can we see a price comparison aswell? I think u can have more shreks than rrs right?

What on earth is your validation for RR's not having high pen ?

[GrayWolf]

RR's should have high pen, but it's always hitting the target, even through smoke.

[NightRain]

RR's should have high pen, but it's always hitting the target, even through smoke.

Low scatter is the cause of this. Park a tank next to a solid target i.e tank trap and the RRs will hit the tank trap instead.

[I2ay]

You're complaining that they hit through smoke? That IS the idea of RR's. They don't do a lot of damage, they don't always penetrate, but they almost ALWAYS hit. Taking away the ability of RR's to hit through smoke is like taking away the ability of storms to cloak. it is THEIR gimmick. Deal with it...

[XIIcorps]

Low scatter is the cause of this. Park a tank next to a solid target i.e tank trap and the RRs will hit the tank trap instead.

Using RR's against a PE coy using roadblocks is a fucking nightmare

[ick312]

RRs always hitting and having these high Penetration values is just insane they cost like 25% more. No problem if they are always hitting, But these insane penetration values? (with the same damage output)
ok i get the point that you want the best HHat on AB ranger. But crazy penetration + that accuracy?
Sorry but both i just too strong. Should be decided for one of them.

(even if you bring the penetrationvalues in one line with other HHat, its far too strong - just imagine your tears if shreks would always hit on long range. It should be 5-10% worse then shrek IF they keep their insane accuracy tables OR simply shouldnt be able to hit moving targets.)

[NightRain]

Despite being one of the highest health squads, Standard Airborne is shit without high pen Anti tank weapons icks. The squads weapon M1 Carbine is shit. Wembley has more DPS than it does. That is why they get such a good anti tank weapon. Its their speciality, along with satchel charges. Ontop of it, it is expensive as hell, maybe not resource wise but poolwise. With AB you won't be able to spam RRs without crippling your company boy.