Ukraine and the Crimea

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[TheIcelandicManiac]

So the revoult have pretty much ended in central Ukraine but there is still talks about Russia sending in troops to Crimea.

I was just wondering what you guys think about whats going on there and if you have anything to say.

[XIIcorps]

I don't think Russia as a whole has been happy that the Ukraine won its independence.
Heck I don't think any country in history has been happy to relinquish territory.

Also what has happened in the Ukraine needs to happen in Australia tbh.

[aeroblade56]

I don't think Russia as a whole has been happy that the Ukraine won its independence.
Heck I don't think any country in history has been happy to relinquish territory.

Also what has happened in the Ukraine needs to happen in Australia tbh.

but aboriginals will win. with their medicine men and lore of nature with drop bears at disposal, no i don't think you want that in australia my little joey.

[CrazyWR]

Also what has happened in the Ukraine needs to happen in Australia tbh.

why?

[CrazyWR]

I would say that Russia certainly has an interest in the region.  I'd like to see free elections held, but I'm slightly concerned with reports of ultranationalist neo-nazi types being near places of power atm in Ukraine.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

why?

As my Australian roommate told me, Australia is more of an oligarchy than the US and Russia is.

[NightRain]

Russia wont intervine. All they want is Sevestapol naval base which is pretty much theirs and they will be ready to defend it. It is unlikely they'll go anywhere from there. They are showing off their muscles though as if to threaten Ukraine to not do anything stupid.

However, what is likely is a civil war between Russian likers and EU likers in Ukraine.

[Bear]

the NATO will never do start a war against russain, all russian people wich think this be a victim of russian propaganda.

unfortunately, the russian-born people in Ukraine are not very clever, because they might also come to the EU.
something that the Kremlin fears. because the Russians would see then, so bad it's not to be with us.

I would say that Russia certainly has an interest in the region.  I'd like to see free elections held, but I'm slightly concerned with reports of ultranationalist neo-nazi types being near places of power atm in Ukraine.

I think the EU would solve this problem but it takes time, the Ukraine need money and the neo-nazi cant solve this...
and money is the strongest weapon of the NATO, with this we had won against the soviets^^

[chefarzt]

Poeple who cant read do the Revolution, people who can fuck it up, as usual........
As long as humans think they need to governed its pretty hopeless

[TheArea]

To say its complicated is an understatement, but here are some points to consider:

1)  No coincidence that things seem to have started with the elected govt of Ukraine deciding against closer ties with the EU in preference for ties with Russia.

2)  Ukraine is strategically important insofar as it both, has nuclear weapons (not 100% on this but Im pretty sure this is the case), and borders Russia.  So any movement closer to the EU is defacto a move closer to NATO, and a necessary problem for Russia in the region.

3)  No one is innocent here and the US/EU (nominally) have their favorites and proxies in Ukraine (NGOs and specific political actors, eg. Klitschko) as do the Russians, and so the game goes

Some troubling signs:

1)  The US/EU are already refusing to recognize the change in govt in Ukraine as a coup, which strictly speaking it was.  Of course Russia is taking the opposite position, but this indicates that this is only the beginning of a possibly long term problem where Ukraine is the background for a Russian-US low intensity conflict.

2)  The almost immediate proposal, or passage (not sure which at this stage), by the new govt to officially make Ukrainian the language of the country is a direct affront to those in the country who understand themselves as ethnically Russian.  Again this suggests that the govt is at least influenced by a kind of ethnic-nationalism that has a long and troubling political history in Europe, not to mention Ukraine's own troubled history with fascism (had one of the largest concentrations of collaborators during Nazi occupation, whether this was love for Hitler or hate of Stalin is debatable, but many Ukrainians through their hat in with the Nazis for ideological reasons).

3)  The former Ukrainian president is now in Russia and the legitimacy of any new elections is in doubt because the new govt and "popular organizations" have already begun to destroy and vandalize offices of political parties deemed too Russian or not Ukrainian.  Of course this varies from region to region in the Ukraine, and it falls along an East-West split.

All this is to say that some of these problems are real, and some of these have been aggravated for the purpose of overthrowing a legitimate, if bad, govt.  In this sense, the people of Ukraine are in the worst possible position because they are only the background for a larger geopolitical shoving match.   

[TheIcelandicManiac]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26400035

this doesn't bode well

[deadbolt]

fuckyea bring on ww3, such nukes wow much radiation many deaths wow

[Bear]

this, russians are only safe in russia, is for me also a fascist thinking....
the motivation of the Kremlin is clear...
I hope it will win the peace and that for the crimean tatars as ugrainische populous it will be a place in europe or turkey if they want leave the crimean....

[420thStealthBrigade]

We Americans must have a military piece we need to test, so lets pick a side, strap on our team America suits and kick some commie ass.... #$%K YEAH

[Bear]

We Americans must have a military piece we need to test, so lets pick a side, strap on our team America suits and kick some commie ass.... #$%K YEAH

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26079957
This was not helpfully to and gave much pressure....
EU work a little bit diplomatically slower as the usa and maybe it would be better but now its too late...

[aeroblade56]

fuckyea bring on ww3, such nukes wow much radiation many deaths wow

[AmPM]

Russian troops were deployed to protect the Russian military port in Sevastopol. Russia relies on that port to project naval power into the western world. It's no different than if Japan were engaged in a war against it's government and we deployed troops to protect our interests in Okinawa.

[mrshark]

edit: that was just annoying Condor.....lol

[Bear]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/world/europe/russia-to-pay-not-so-simple.html?hp&_r=1

[deadbolt]

tl;dr