Powerful doctrines

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[Mysthalin]

Was it really that good? Sick!

Yeah, me and misten tested it once. Was firing at the back of a sherman from point blank with a shrek. It would heal up ages before I'd reload to fire again.

[Mister Schmidt]

The people have spoken.

[Bear]

can eirr be again like last year summer?
all was fine and balance, I said it many time before.....

now I think axis was op in the month at beginn this year without docs and allied be now op with the docs...

[Shabtajus]

yea good old doctrines.

The real question is when new patch is coming?

[TheIcelandicManiac]

I wonder if people remember why the "good old doctrines" were changed, anyone here remember the fun times when you had to deal with Carbines? TRs? old SE?
Terror officer? Fuck if anyone here remembers Passive sprint Lighting war.

The problem was that it wasnt just OP vs OP makes a game fun, It would just make something so strong that even tough youd play the best you could do youd have no chance of winning because Youd get raped in a head on combat, Sure people would say just kite them or flank em. Well in the end it never worked out as youd just get shoved up the ass by a 250 dam ATG or LMG DPS riflemen.

Fuck you have to Miss Bob and his Allied fanboyism.

[NightRain]

Very few remembers the old powerful doctrines Ice. TR used to be 70% health, damage, penetration on every anti tank gun on field. What it is now is pansy in comparison.

Though powerful T4s should come back, but they do have to be viable and useful, and not make double T3s look weak in comparison either.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Very few remembers the old powerful doctrines Ice. TR used to be 70% health, damage, penetration on every anti tank gun on field. What it is now is pansy in comparison.

Though powerful T4s should come back, but they do have to be viable and useful, and not make double T3s look weak in comparison either.

Damn im happy i came in early 2010.
http://www.moddb.com/mods/europe-in-ruins/videos/tank-reapers#imagebox

[narref]

I just miss the old EIR Tank reapers doctrine. Watching your stugs 1 shot by a single 57mm round was so frigging annoying and impressing at the same time.

[Mister Schmidt]

Damn im happy i came in early 2010.
http://www.moddb.com/mods/europe-in-ruins/videos/tank-reapers#imagebox

I wish I was there

[NightRain]

Honestly? None of you wish you were there. Then again Repair bunker spam was one common thing. Tigers that kept coming back since pios, engineers and such could repair vehicles even tho it was at slow rate.

There were doctrines that made units cheaper, like -30% off of grenadiers and volksgrenadiers, airborne and things like that. Every side certainly had a lot of things that simply made people weep. German Steel...damn I can't recall its buffs but it was around -35% less penetration -20% less damage. Those buffs on 2 King Tigers certainly rose hair on people's head, Fatherland Defence all units had 20% more health or so making panthers as HP buffed as Tigers. Zeal...making solo grenadiers so tough that you needed snipers to deal with them. Schrecks turned into semi automatic rifles. A lot of weird things to be fair!

[TheWindCriesMary]

In a 3v3 guys like St. Pauli's whole 3v3 gameplan was based around bringing repair bunkers and tons of pios and just playing with one tiger for like 30+ minutes of a game.

[XIIcorps]

If they came back we would essentially exterminate the playerbase bar the elitists who know how to exploit their doctrines to the full extent.

It would be a QQ fest.

And why would we undo all the progress we have made thus far.

[Mister Schmidt]

Strongly disagree, and what progress? Mod dies and gets replenished every year, it's a cycle

P.S I never said bring back doctrines exactly as they were, I said I'd like to see a return to doctrines that were stronger and better buffed

[XIIcorps]

Admittedly some t4 or dual t3 combinations are lackluster compared to those that work.

But do we really want to go back to retarded OP days ?

And as for progress im talking about the semblance balance.

[Mister Schmidt]

I would happily forgoe balance for a while if we were to get fun doctrines back.

They have steadily and contiuosly been turned into boring, bland, lackluster and in some cases, weak choices over the past year or two, and I'm clearly not the only one who thinks so.

[EliteGren]

If anyone will make doctrines powerful again it's Myst tbh, so we pretty much got it. Just a matter of time

[XIIcorps]

I would happily forgoe balance for a while if we were to get fun doctrines back.

They have steadily and contiuosly been turned into boring, bland, lackluster and in some cases, weak choices over the past year or two, and I'm clearly not the only one who thinks so.

doctrines have barely changed over the last 2 years, besides the 1 or 2 abilities per faction.
Ie Airborne mortar, USK removing main gun. some of these actions made boring, others were nesicary

[Mister Schmidt]

lol, we had like 3 doctrine reworks the past 2 years or so

[tank130]

lol, we had like 3 doctrine reworks the past 2 years or so

There was a rework 4 years ago when I first got on the Dev team and Firesparks was coding.

When PQ became balance lead we had half (not even half) of a rework but Leophone  refused to code the remaining docs claiming it was a very complex job that required months.

Nikomas came on board and completed coding 2 of those docs in about 3 days...... The Dev team decided not to code the rest of the changes because it was obvious the rework was not done in a cohesive group and did not blend well.

There was a testing period of docs with Hicks as balance lead that resulted in some minor changes to docs.


So no, there absolutely has not been 3 doc reworks in the past 2 years. There hasn't even really been a total rework in 4 years.


You will also find numerous threads with people offering to rework doctrines, people claiming the Dev team should ask the community for help etc, etc, etc. These threads are then filled up with people claiming they created docs but the dev team ignored them.

What people fail to recognize is reworking the docs requires ALL OF THEM to be reworked as a group to ensure balance & consistency. You can't player "A" make one doc, player "B" make another with out them working together.

There are countless docs out there created by community members but everyone just picks the same 2 or 3 docs most often played & ignores the rest.

Reworking the docs requires balancing 252 abilities & unlocks....... Sure, you don't have to reinvent these abilities & unlocks, but the moment you change one of them, you must balance it against all the rest.

[tank130]

Something that is often forgotten is that the current doctrine system is broken. Broken in that you do not have to earn your docs. The war is supposed to reset and it is supposed to take a while to build up your docs.

Overly powerful docs would create a massive gap between a new company and an established company. Even a veteran player creating a new company would be at a great disadvantage resulting in no one experimenting with other factions.

The only way to offset this imbalance would be to add a resource cost to these better abilities. That is what the dev team has designed for Eir2 giving them the ability to make any doc powerful but still have a balance mechanic.

Unfortunately this can not be done with the current launcher. Let me rephrase that - it physically can be done, but it would require an insane number of hours of work (150+) and Eirrmod does not want to invest that kind of time into a temporary fix. Can't blame him either.