Attack/Defend capping

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[Smokaz]

Not sure whats going on atm.

But if you are facing AB, and you are defending, it seems like you are doomed to lose by cap .

Attackers get superior population which is supposed to be their compensation for the ability to lay down gay defenses.

I'm sure everyone has noticed that if you are defending, you get kicked off the game (lose) extremely fast.

Maybe it's supposed to be like this to a extent, but right now it seems a bit much.

In general I think that we need to review the following:

- How fast defenders die from map control
- Deployment abilities 1: do we want to keep the penalty for callins below 8 pop? How about differentiating between lets say 5 - 8 - 10 and 12+.
- Deployment abilities 2: are callin reduction abilities generally balanced against each other? How is the PE halftrack thing (largely useless?) comparing to other early/rapid deploy
- How fast sectors are capped
- Capping ability of single men

Not sure if the current implementation caters to good gameplay during defense.

[shockcoil]

I'm not sure why attackers get +3 pop. I think in most games attackers have the advantage even without the extra pop just by virtue of starting with the initiative and being able to chose the opening engagement. The only way defenders really have to counter it is well... not defending, just spawn rush or do a fluid start. That or lay down 10000000 mines

[chefarzt]

Ure overexaggerating, i had 2 half squads hanging around capping nothing in a minute, in neutral sector

Well attacking is always more fun, but i dont know how 3 pop can be a problem.

Actually i think Smokerz got a bit whiny.

I mean it was 1 game on a new map, u had all the field, got blasted away by awesome and now make 2 posts.

Smokazedit: try to make 1 post chez, instead of 4

[GelezinisVilkas]

The map had 20 sectors and when we initiated the countdown timer, we were holding on to 16 sectors and one uncapped sector. You guys had 3 sectors. What surprised me was when you guys recap to 4 sector it did not stop the count down timer. Perhaps the mechanics of the count down timer via map cap should be made more apparent.

Also to note during the game towards the end a panther was brought on field consuming large popcap without infantry to help cap the sides when there was only a single sherman in the game instead of an abundance of tanks or vehicles.

[Smokaz]

I'm not sure why attackers get +3 pop. I think in most games attackers have the advantage even without the extra pop just by virtue of starting with the initiative and being able to chose the opening engagement. The only way defenders really have to counter it is well... not defending, just spawn rush or do a fluid start. That or lay down 10000000 mines

It was added to compensate during a time where you could predict whether or not you were defending.  Causing people to go SE, goli spam etc and having reliable success with it. (AFAIK)

Ure overexaggerating, i had 2 half squads hanging around capping nothing in a minute, in neutral sector

Well attacking is always more fun, but i dont know how 3 pop can be a problem.

Actually i think Smokerz got a bit whiny.

I mean it was 1 game on a new map, u had all the field, got blasted away by awesome and now make 2 posts.

It's not the first game I've lost like this, or been a part of winning. Dont you want games to mostly go to the point where people have used up their companies?

The map had 20 sectors and when we initiated the countdown timer, we were holding on to 16 sectors and one uncapped sector. You guys had 3 sectors. What surprised me was when you guys recap to 4 sector it did not stop the count down timer. Perhaps the mechanics of the count down timer via map cap should be made more apparent.

Also to note during the game towards the end a panther was brought on field consuming large popcap without infantry to help cap the sides when there was only a single sherman in the game instead of an abundance of tanks or vehicles.

The game you are refering to now is not a super good example. Gork brings on 2 snipers etc. But like you said, we capped 4 sectors and it still didn't stop the lose timer.

[chefarzt]

It's not the first game I've lost like this, or been a part of winning. Dont you want games to mostly go to the point where people have used up their companies?

Nope actually i dont want the OMG attrition fest, where u hold the whole map and still get outspammed.
My Opinion ofcourse...
Btw since when do u complain about cap wins
Seriously
Getting old?
Chefedit:Could you plese merge all my Posts?

[skaffa]

If a team focus on mass cap to win the game n build their coys to do so there is not much that can stop it, imo eir is flawed in that sense.

[Smokaz]

If a team focus on mass cap to win the game n build their coys to do so there is not much that can stop it, imo eir is flawed in that sense.

And it's especially bad when ur defending. You start at pop disadvantage and then it compounds.

[PonySlaystation]

The territory system in EIR is a bit flawed. A single pioneer/engineer captures just as fast as an entire army and can prevent an entire army from capturing a sector.

It would make more sense if a larger army can capture a sector if they have more units there. Then territory measurement would be up to how much territory one side can advance and hold with their armies instead of being based on how many single units you can send to backcap.

[EliteGren]

When you got a single soldier in a sector and the enemy moves in units with more men it should atleast neutralize it

[NightRain]

Mostly with infantry cap cap cap cap games the other team brings on things that can not cap to chase after units. i.e vehicles or static things. Defences should be fluid. Though honestly sometimes I wonder if 4 minutes is enough to set up a any form of defence in the first place.

[tank130]

The territory system in EIR is a bit flawed. A single pioneer/engineer captures just as fast as an entire army and can prevent an entire army from capturing a sector.

It would make more sense if a larger army can capture a sector if they have more units there. Then territory measurement would be up to how much territory one side can advance and hold with their armies instead of being based on how many single units you can send to backcap.

How would you balance a 6 man rifle squad with a 3 man KCH?

[PonySlaystation]

Base it on population values.

[TheWindCriesMary]

To reiterate Skaffa's post, the cap system is mostly fine. But the big problem is there are certain doc's/armies that can be built almost entirely to optimize on capping. Once that happens with AB or rifles for example, it's almost impossible to stop it from winning if a decent player is using that strat.

[Smokaz]

It's much harder to beat when you are defending - I would look at how much difference there is between ME/R and def.

Maybe we could also consider disabling capping for pioneer and enginers without flamers?

I think you all agree that even though it's fun to do it, it's very frustrating to play vs players who will suicide engineers with mines + backcap.

[Shabtajus]

i think cap timer shoulda be a bit longer. Taking away a chance to win by cap is not fair. Just increase timer. Dont turn this game in OMG style. EIRR is offer way more strats and intense play than OMG did and capping was one of the reasons that make players move and dont camp. Thats why EIRR is still alive