[US] T17s

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[TheWindCriesMary]

They are simply far too powerful and cost effective at the moment with the right doctrine bonuses.

Right now someone can afford 10 T17s that can do all of the following (with the bottom t4) and other unlocks:

-Cap
-Repair twice
-Travel/accelerate at super speed
-Repair on the move
-Decently penetrate/damage LV's (half tracks, marders, pumas, AC's etc.)
-Super accuracy and other offensive buffs with the "Calling it In" t3 unlock 4x per battle

This effectively turns this unit into a super unit, capable of fulfilling almost every major single role except for hard AT. Not to mention that in groups they can decimate every counter except axis tanks and hotches.

A small step on the path to bringing them back to decency would probably be to remove capping for LV's altogether. There is no sound gameplay reason, especially in a gameplay meta where LV's are already so effective, for LVs to be able to cap.

[Mister Schmidt]

Little birdy told me they're being nerfed next patch heya

[Smokaz]

Calling it in is stupidly balanced anyway. Its "balanced"/useless for guns like the 75mm, m10 gun, pershings etc.

But on quads and light vehicles (crusaders, m8, t17 bofors ht) its extremely good. You get more out of this ability the more vehicles you are affecting.

Don't really know about the t17s.. I see players be successful with them but I dont really know if its the unit being op, or just keeps being good. This proficieny vs vehicles seems exaggerated to me.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Try running 10 in your company with the bottom t4 and you'll know right away about the T17s. I've been doing it even longer than keeps and it's so ridiculous that I don't use it very often.

You don't have to be good to do well with super fast, capping, moving dual repair rape go-karts.

[Smokaz]

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=21466.15

^2011 thread where nobody really complains about it needing a nerf, rather the other way around, what has changed since then? (keeps is mentioned rampaging here too)

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=22896.0

^2012, aero saying it sucks, nikomas posting its the mid t4 that kicks ass

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=22369.0

^2012 thread, again dying out

As for the capping.. interestingly enough someone argued a while back that it was tanks that should be able to hold territory, not light vehicles, can't really remember the thread.

[nikomas]

The T17 has been raping infantry since way back when and with the mid T4 it has always been total beast mode, the last changes just made it more consistent if anything as it bouncing off kettens and support weapons was hilariously depressing. mebbe compensate with reduced damage or just increase it in price?

It's the one prime example of "Idiots calling something bad because they suck with it".

I had a massive boner for the USK Calliope/T17 combo, for a long time I was the only one doing it cause the "T17 sucked" and "I thought the T17 was a normal staghound" <--- No really, a majority of the community thought either of these.


HOWEVER.

Let me point out that pretty much all gripes that Wind has with it in that post are DOCTRINE based, not core vehicle stats. In fact the only thing actually part of core stats in his bulletpoints is that it can now penetrate vehicles somewhat. I thought we weren't in the buisniss of balancing units on their (potential) doctrines?

It has poor accuarcy normally for the record, it's rather scattershot.

[XIIcorps]

Remove capping and it will make said build force the player to field less t17s and more inf.
Having 4-5 aat a time being able to cap is insanely haard to counter.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Remove capping and it will make said build force the player to field less t17s and more inf.
Having 4-5 aat a time being able to cap is insanely haard to counter.

This is basically it.

I think the unit as a base is fine. I think its cost is fine.

What isn't fine is that with the bottom T4 and no pool you can field 10 of them that serve all the roles of infantry (except recrew and garrison) basically, but far, far better.

Capping, moving repair, dual repair, super fast, super resilient, good dodge, high firepower (vs inf and support weapons) LV's are one or two bridges too far.

[XIIcorps]

I dont want to see it nerfed back into oblivion.

[TheWindCriesMary]

I dont want to see it nerfed back into oblivion.

A slow, incremental step process can help move the unit in the right direction over the course of several patches versus trying to "fix" a unit or problem all in one go and risk going too far.

I'd suggest starting with just removing capping capability and evaluate how that impacts things.

[NightRain]

There'll be changes to T17 I'm fairly certain of it, that unit is powerful as hell.

[XIIcorps]

There'll be changes to T17 I'm fairly certain of it, that unit is powerful as hell.

It makes the stag look like a fucking Jeep AI wise.

That bofors like clip it has is rediculous, 2 or 3 of them will snipe anything before they return more then one volley.