[PE] FJ Sniper

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[TheWindCriesMary]

It may be a good idea to revisit having this unit available to all 3 PE docs.

 If the intention was that all docs should have access to some kind of sniper (as much as I loathe the concept of mirror balancing), there is a problem with Brits not having a cross doctrine option as well. There doesn't seem to be a strong gameplay rationale for having Tank Hunters and SE get access to the best sniper in the game, especially when it is a Falschirm sniper.

Also I think the recloak speed, movement speed and/or  AB armour (good point Gelez) should be looked at. Coupled with its range this unit seems to, handled reasonably well, consistently perform beyond its cost in a game determining manner.

Proposed solutions:

a) Make it Luft only
b) Keep it as a reward unit available for all axis
c) Reduce recloak speed after firing while also lengthening the recloak delay further for each successive shot (similar to recloak on traditional sniper).

[aeroblade56]

not to mention it cloaks pretty quickly and has a silly ROF.

poor mando sniper gets smoke at vet 1.

[GelezinisVilkas]

FJ sniper is OP. The only reason why it isn't viewed as OP yet is because most people are poor at using sniper.

A sniper that has AB armour is as good as uncounterable by jeep/motorbike spam which is a little unfair considering that is a generally accepted sniper counter. The unit should be a doctrine specific unit.

[nikomas]

On the flipside, why use a jeep to counter the FSJ sniper when it can't cloak normally? Any vehicle can do it since it can't cloakmove away from them, if it cloaks you know exactly where to crush/fire a howitzer.

Not saying anything on the other stuff, but he's a bit less survivable in that regard.

[aeroblade56]

its not like howie's are the most accurate of tools to kill a sniper.

and also because most things wont make up the distance in quick enough time.

[GelezinisVilkas]

Because cloak on a sniper isn't really as useful as people think it is. Firing a howie / offmaps are used when the sniper moves to the front fire and exposes it self. No one really fires howie/offmap/arty at an invisible target. A good sniper hunter knows that the way to deal with a sniper is to offer a target and then launch all your counters at it.

Jeeps and motorbikes are good counters because they move fast, are popcap efficient and deal good damage to sniper armour.

Vehicles aren't generally good counters because it is popcap inefficient. Only poor players who do not support their sniper gets killed by a vehicle rush. 1 vehicles = 12 pop usually. Sniper + ATG = 12 pop too not to mention schrecks or fausts. Enmassed vehicle rush could work I guess but remember... it is also about the cost/sacrifice u make in order to kill that sniper. 3x jeeps / motorbikes is relatively cheap and has a higher success rate compared to dedicating tanks or light vehicles to kill something which may or may not be sucessful.

I agree the cloak is good for dealing with vehicles, especially the ninja cloak/uncloak but trading that for the AB armour which also makes them tougher to small arms fire (especially BARs!) is more worth it. Plus that 50% dodge chance while moving? That's very powerful considering snipers (for weird reasons) often get killed by a single shot from ATGs and tanks or light vehicles..

[TheWindCriesMary]

Also decloaking the sniper isn't the problem, it's unbalanced for a multitude of reasons: speed, AB armour, range, ROF. Alone or in pairs these factors alone aren't necessarily problematic, but the packaged whole is for sure.

What it comes down to is, should all PE docs have a sniper? I'm not sure there is a good argument to suggest that they should. Nor that they should have a FJ sniper that is the best unit of its kind in the mod.

I would suggest an actionable first step be something along these lines:

a) Make it Luft only
b) Keep it as a reward unit available for all axis
c) Reduce recloak speed after firing while also lengthening the recloak delay further for each successive shot (similar to recloak on traditional sniper).

Change C wont cripple the sniper as it will still have the AB armour, speed and range advantage over a traditional sniper but will make it more viable to counter snipe it and/or get sight on it in cover after it is raining death down upon the enemy.

[XIIcorps]

It should only have ever been an unlock for luft. Or now even a reward unit for the faction.

There is a reason alot of the uperechelon players spam them.

The unit honestly has no drawbacks. Granted it only cloaks in cover, which is abundant and recloaks in the blink of an eye.

[ick312]

it should be the reward it was: with sprint with 0,8 received accuracy AND RARE

[Smokaz]

It outperforms other snipers easily in a shorter amount of time.

I say major cost increase to 260 munis and 700 mp.

[GrayWolf]

It outperforms other snipers easily in a shorter amount of time.

I say major cost increase to 260 munis and 700 mp.

245 muni, because no scouting possibilities.

[Smokaz]

I was thinking a price hike to 300 muni first, tbh. Your 245 is very lenient

[TheWindCriesMary]

Price hikes are a solution for units that are too numerous or which are performing their function at a reasonably balanced level, but simply are too cheap for their utility. It is not a solution for a unit that, due to inbalanced traits (a lightning fast, constant recloak and AB armour) is damaging gameplay and operating outside the realm of reason.

The FJ is overpowered in a game damaging way. Raising the price isn't the right way to fix that -- it just means someone will have to drop a g43 squad from their company to afford the unit. All the gamebreaking, poor gameplay characteristics would still be in effect and it would be just as hard to counter as currently.

[XIIcorps]

It needs to either gey regualr sniper cloak speed and keep ab armor
Or
Loose ab armor altogether,  the fucking thing can dodge artt shells cause of the AB armor buffs.


Hilariously tho just had a Firefly snipe a vet 2 FJS

[ick312]

this thread is an excellent example of the dumbing down of eirr.

FJ is NOT op

ITS NOT OUTPERFORMING OTHER SNIPER. Its different cope with it!

Regular Sniper are able to operate INDEPENDENT OF COVER on the map. They can go activly on the hunt!

FJ Sniper can also go on the hunt BUT are taking a FAR HIGHER RISK if they hunt as aggressive (ignoring cover on the map) as regular Sniper do !

[XIIcorps]

this thread is an excellent example of the dumbing down of eirr.

FJ is NOT op

ITS NOT OUTPERFORMING OTHER SNIPER. Its different cope with it!

Regular Sniper are able to operate INDEPENDENT OF COVER on the map. They can go activly on the hunt!

FJ Sniper can also go on the hunt BUT are taking a FAR HIGHER RISK if they hunt as aggressive (ignoring cover on the map) as regular Sniper do !

And the commando sniper is ?

Please put more thought into things ick.
Should we have mando snipers being
Non unlock (t3 mind you)
Availiable to all 3 brit doctrines
And also crossfactional as a reward unit ?

Yeh I didn't think so, then why is the FJS ?

[ick312]

Truth is the following: They are easier to counter snipe and to get IF you overwhelm the position. (no moving Cloak)

Counter snipe works as the following:

Mortar/ Arty/ Jeep/ Inf push/ regular Tank, ATG shot on the cover (attack ground) and the FJ Sniper has to move. BÄNG hes dead.



Again the FJ Sniper is a defensive weapon. He cant stalk like the other Sniper can do it.


Actually i vote that ALL Snipers are like the FJ Sniper - cheers

And the commando sniper is ?

Please put more thought into things ick.
Should we have mando snipers being
Non unlock (t3 mind you)
Availiable to all 3 brit doctrines
And also crossfactional as a reward unit ?

Yeh I didn't think so, then why is the FJS ?

XIICorp look, i agree with you. PE shouldnt have a Sniper.

I think it was a mistake. It should be restored as the old reward unit.

I am just pissed about the tenor this Argumentation* goes and wanted to clarify some things



*cause its simply not true what certain guys claim here

[XIIcorps]

Cover is more then abundant in every map, FJS have no problem hiding.
They also recloak twice as quick as regular snipers, making it extremly difficult to counter snipe.

They can be used quick easily on the offensive picking apart support weapons and squads while a vech meatshields.

Atgs cannot effectily counter snipers you goose, even with this absrud attack ground idea your using.
The whole time your doing this your loosing crew every 2 seconds.

[ick312]

Atgs cannot effectily counter snipers you goose, even with this absrud attack ground idea your using.
The whole time your doing this your loosing crew every 2 seconds.

ok u r  a good example, why so many guys have issues with the FJ Sniper.

What happens if you attack ground on a Wreck? Can you tell me?
Yes the Wreck gets destroyed! What happens then? What?
OH yes the FJ Sniper gets decloaked. EASY TARGET for your sniper.

Cover is more then abundant in every map, FJS have no problem hiding.
They also recloak twice as quick as regular snipers, making it extremly difficult to counter snipe.

They recloak so fast cause they cant hide outside of cover.

They can be used quick easily on the offensive picking apart support weapons and squads while a vech meatshields.

like any sniper


honestly for a minute, before u made your 2. comment, i was respecting you.

[TheWindCriesMary]

The FJ sniper is the most effective sniper in the game, by far. Speed, survivability, increased range, great ROF and the plethora of cover available at all times makes it a fantastically powerful unit for its cost.

The commando sniper, on the other hand, is neither available cross doctrine or as a reward unit. It is significantly less survivable and has no cloak. It, in contrast to the FJ sniper, is the easiest sniper in the game to counter snipe as you can target the man with the rifle and one-shot the squad's sniping capabilities 100% of the time.