6p La Touques

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[Korpisolttu]

1.01 (current/latest)
http://www.gamefront.com/files/24900364/6p_LaTouques_rar

***previous versions & replays***
http://www.gamefront.com/files/24900369/old_replays_and_map_files.rar
Previous versions: 0.92, 0.91 (1x 3vs3 game played) & 0.90 (1x 3vs3 game played)


Two weeks ago I started learning WorldBuilder. Almost immediately I started to build my first map and therefore 90% of time were used in learning/thinking/redoing and less than 10% to actual map building, but here it is now.
-Totally 25 sectors (19 + 6 starting sectors).
-Playable area is from 512 to 352.
-Map is roughly mirror from left to right, divided by small river "La Touques".
-River is 2 to 3 meters wide and can be crossed anywhere in couple of seconds
-River has two destroyable bridges at the flanks, four dry crossings and one undestroyable bridge at middle of the map.






All pictures of 1.01: http://imgur.com/a/jfoUN

Older pics from the previous versions:  
All pictures of 0.92: http://imgur.com/a/BKXe4
http://i.imgur.com/QiwSX65.jpg
http://imgur.com/a/3VKsC
http://i.imgur.com/hzGcRbK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HZ42oaS.jpg


Feedback will be appriciated!

[Mister Schmidt]

This is so different

I like the look of this, a lot

Good job tbh

[deadbolt]

[tank130]

It has an equal number of sectors per side. I think you need to make that uneven. What I mean is, if both sides hold 11 sectors it stops the counter.

Other then that, it's great to see something different. Great work!!

[CrazyWR]

I think that is a positive thing.  Looks great.

[Korpisolttu]

It has an equal number of sectors per side. I think you need to make that uneven. What I mean is, if both sides hold 11 sectors it stops the counter.

Other then that, it's great to see something different. Great work!!

You think creating single area at center of the map would do the work?

[XIIcorps]

You think creating single area at center of the map would do the work?

I think so, it gives the players 2 options
A) Focus on gaining the 1 territory advantage by holding the middle.

B) Ignore middle and focus on sidecapping for the advantage.

[tank130]

You think creating single area at center of the map would do the work?

Ya, I think a sector at center would be great.
That said, I don't think it's game breaking to not have it, just a little better is all.

[GelezinisVilkas]

Looks really good! Add to map rotation pl0x

EDIT: I think you should have more than 11 sectors. This will turn out to be a meat grinder with the current sectoring imo because no one is able to gain any advantage with small troop movements so they will just hunker down and arty / poke the crap out of each other.

[Korpisolttu]

It has totally 22 sectors if you count the 6 starting locations aswell. Very few 3v3 maps have more than 20 sectors, but this one might be bigger and may need more. I'm making some small changes before the actual EiR testing like the 23th territory to center of the map later today. Looking forward to test this with you guys later today!

[XIIcorps]

Something like this creates an "objective" sector giving advantage to one side.

[Korpisolttu]

Well I had more time in my hands than I excepted so I made the changes. Notified your post afterwards Corps so I could have made the center sector bigger like in your pic, but what is done is done. It can allways be changed later.

[Korpisolttu]

So we tried the map (gelezinasvilkas, darsin & me on axis and heartman, douggernaut & graywolf on allies). It was axis attack and after few minutes problems started :S

-That attackers spawn protection area (mine/arty kill, whatever its called) seemed to come kinda close to mid map, might need to rework territories.
-Heartman could recruit volksgrenadiers from any/some buildings if he just had resource??
edit: church he says
-Eventually heartman got scar error
-River slows everything else but for light vehicles it works as a road??? It shows as a red cover anyways.
-Hedgerows needs to be reduced from spawn areas in order to offer faster access from spawn to town.

So that house/volk issue might be because of accidentally edited building state?
Also I assume the heartmans volk/house bug had something to do with his later scar error, so that all can be fixed by finding the bugged house I hope.
Map has been stamped two times aswell. First version of the map was too big so I stamped the whole map to smaller 512x352 area, and after that I had bugged panther wreck (turned to unselectable maingundestroy panther) so i had to stamp it again to get rid of that.
If any experienced mappers got ideas for the bugs, lemme know.

[Korpisolttu]

Okay we tried the "fixed" version in EiR 1vs1 with GelezinisVilkas and everything seemed fine so problems should be fixed now.

-Sectors are fine, just don't go too close to enemy spawn when in defend mode (this is the case with any map..). Tested in defend/attack mode.
-Hedgerows been reduced
-Possible bugged church was deleted and replaced with new one.
-Water had something to do with wrongly set water depth value I think, should be fixed now.
-There was also unnecessary bak and scar file (which might have caused problems?) in the map sga. file, so they got removed and file size was also reduced from 13mb to 11mb.

Our 1v1 was much more promising, so I think we can give it a new more serious try in 3v3 now
I'll be upating the download links in a hour.

[Heartmann]

Great Job ! Ty

[Korpisolttu]

Finally we had a "succesfull" 3v3 game. Here's the replay: http://www.gamefront.com/files/24334498/replay.rar
The game gave me a lot of good data what needs to be changed and improved. Thanks for all testers!
I'm listing shortly what needs to be changed with few words and giving longer arguments after them so more patient readers can read those aswell.

-Water will be removed completely/mostly (at least from the center map).
Most of the fighting happens at the center of the map (obviously), and therefore the water needs to be removed. It was overall test how it would play out in EiR and as most of you veterans have already seen it doesn't. It just does not fit in EiR gameplay, you need to be able to pull back fast. What I saw in the game was that everybody was avoiding the river because of its slowing effect resulting to wait which one dares to cross river or make long flank. Water is tactical yes, but just mostly annoys and and hinders mobile moving in already thick town enviroment. This is my opinion. I might leave some spots of water to flanks, but at the center I'll remove most of it.

-Map will be made more open (at least from the center/town area).
I've been stupidly scared of making my map too open all the time, but the game proved me that it was pointless fear since the begining. You should see how the first town looked. I ended removing half of the buildings. Later I turned it in the ruins allowing me to remove even more houses (in the other hand I added lot of walls).
Town is just too thick and favours fast light vehicles (can kite easier), piats, riflenades & mortars.
Sides of the map are ok imo. I dont see side roads as a problem as "fast flanking route", it's allways risky to use roads which might be mined. You can also build fast blocks to sides combining them with hedgerows at the side areas in order to slow and reveal flank attempts.

-I MIGHT shorten the map
Size overall is ok for vehicles as there's main road on middle and flank roads on sides, but for infantry it takes long to get from spawn to the center. So the length of the map (512) might be problem for infantry, but the wide (352) is ok. Though D-day is actually larger map 512x448, but it's also more open map so I'm not sure if the long distances for inf are problem in La Touquese either. After all D-day is semi liked and played map if I'm not completely misunderstood?

[tank130]

The length of D_Day is fine, but it may be a little too wide. I made it extra wide to accommodate the beach area that was never really intended for full on game play. The width of the map from the left side to the cliffs is a good width.

[GelezinisVilkas]

I watched the replay and here are my thoughts.

I strongly disagree with the removal of the river. At present the river creates a good risk-reward situation where one asks oneself. Should we assault their flanks and kill off everything? If we fail our escape route will be tough. Too often players can charge with light vehicles / tanks with impunity because they can easily run away due to map design, favouring attrition play-styles when the fighting is prolonged which also means that players like myself just go straight for map cap and the attrition style players complain that it is boring. I agree it is too but map design + playstyle results in that.

EDIT: River creates a good variation in gameplay and at present, it is a small speed bump. Nothing more than that which is good.

I would advocate for the change of foot bridges at the current locations to become dried river cross-able areas with negative cover as well but no movement impediment and make it wide enough for a vehicle to cross. From what I can see in the game, people did not really get a chance to use the footbridge.

You have lots of groves at areas which impedes gameplay. Groves are indestructible and that causes problems. You need to create some open areas where a well placed 88 can be a strategic control over the area and good long avenues where an ATG can control the corridor while being well protected by infantry all over. This means that your buildings in the city need to be placed wider, creating streetside space with rows of buildings which funnels tanks down the wide path.

Essentially the way the gameplay went was urban warfare with troops all over the place because fighting in urban centres are generally chaotic.

The presence of lots of buildings slows down fighting a little, allowing time for players to bring reinforcements from the back lines so there's no problem with that. The length of map also prevents invulnerable vehicles charging down into the fight which is a problem in some maps.

All in all, minor tweaks to encourage:

- Defensible positions
- Wider spaces in general for ATG control and 88 placement
- Reduce shotblockers (groves, buildings) but use movement blockers (e.g. debris that can shot over) will still capture the feeling of limited mobility but greater lethality and flow of combat, encouraging smart use of terrain.

EiRR gameplay revolves around a lot of kiting and it is good to reduce the amount of kiting to create changes in playstyle instead of Napoleonic era you assemble ur army I assemble mine and see who kites better gameplay  but you should allow players to be able to use their strategy as long as they think carefully on where and how to attack.

EDIT PS: A solution for the river is simply create 2 version of the same map. One with river and one without so people can choose what they want.

[Mister Schmidt]

It's really good as it is Korpi, well done on an excellent map, especially for your first try!

[Korpisolttu]

Okay well you convinced me not to make so harsh changes. Maybe you're right, maybe it's good to have a bit different map which varies from most of the maps. I'll replace footbridges with dry crossings and make some of the changes gelezin proposed.