Riflemen

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[ick312]

Speaking for myself:
Riflemen were never strong even with inf top t4.
Thats why you always saw Ranger/AB blobs but never Riflemen blobs.

However since there is the claim that Riflemen are too weak without docs, i'd like to share my thoughts/ experience.

1. naked Riflemen = Volksgrenadiere, same price, ~ many man => best for crewing weapons.

2. BAR: not very strong BUT with one crucial advantage, Suppressive volley. A suppression plattform that doesnt have to be headed into any specific direction. (and therefore cant be flanked) And can even suppress while they are moving!

3. Stickies & Grenades, i dont know how i should explain it with my poor englisch but i give it a try.
Riflemen are cheap, very cheap, on this cheap plattform can be layed an anti infantry grenade with a good splash OR a close combat anti tank weapons that threatens axis tanks, by crippeling them for the rest of the game.
So essentially the low price of the plattform improved with enorms damage abilities are what makes them good

To sum it up:
Riflemen are the weakest infantry in game, but a plattform for many jobs, suppression, Grenads and Stickies. And this versatility makes them strong.

[Shabtajus]

you know it is said ''what can do everything that can't do nothing good''

[ick312]

you know it is said ''what can do everything that can't do nothing good''

naja,

stickies are VERY GOOD and nades have the same impact as gren nades - and moving suppression is also very nasty

[nikomas]

naja,

stickies are VERY GOOD and nades have the same impact as gren nades - and moving suppression is also very nasty

Trade you bars for LMG's, trade you stickies for shrecks and faust, deal? 

[ick312]

Trade you bars for LMG's, trade you stickies for shrecks and faust, deal? 

YES PLZ

cause i see what happens IF i have magnetic AT nades + G43 Suppression

[Smokaz]

Riflemen are okay. Grens without buffs are also hard to vet these days.

[NightRain]

Riflemen with handgrenades are one of the most solid infantry unit to go up against other infantry. Nuclear Pineapples will do random holiness. The problem is how to get close enough to use them. I'm sure those who make riflespam companies would like to tell about that.

[XIIcorps]

Riflemen with handgrenades are one of the most solid infantry unit to go up against other infantry. Nuclear Pineapples will do random holiness. The problem is how to get close enough to use them. I'm sure those who make riflespam companies would like to tell about that.

Smoke goes a long way to getting them into range, its just some units dont know what to do once their in range.

[aeroblade56]

this is the problem i see.

is that you have 3 axis doctrines can buff their infantry pretty damn well one way or another. Example.

Blitz has a midtier4 which giving grens elite armor +1 grenade +1 medkit and sprint aura with 30s cooldown with no exhaust. while it doesnt buff their over all stats it does provide them with very strong abilities.

Terror: Gives auras hp buffs dps buffs through cooldown(i think) and being able to walk instead of crawl while suppressed.
basically this one allows infantry to dish some sort of damage back to its target and if it is indeed bars suppressing its really good.

Defensive: officer bullshit giving silly buffs while being part cyborg. can also give them reduced incoming accuracy aswell as buffing allies and tanks.

thats 3 doctrines with 3 pretty strong infantry lines if you wish it.
_______________________________________ _______________
Airborne: Airborne rifleman are wierd, mainly because they cost a few more in every category for a reason they get airborne armor by default and  can get stickies that explode instantly and or longer range grenades. This makes them highly effective. but it is also factored into the unit you are paying not only a Tier for those bonuses you are also paying 220MP 35 for a grenade and 65 for stickies. 

So if you dont actually pick that particular tier guess what. your pay 35 for regular grenades and 65 for stickies. while blitz gets no cost increase whatsoever to their grens who receive +1 medkit +1 grenade +1 faust.

Ok fine not a big deal. but then you got this T4 that makes you play aggressive with airborne no matter what. to actually get benefits from this tier 4 you need to be in enemy territory(wow wtf?)          At the end of the day though with all those buffs and in enemy territory with spare mags they will eat up volks instantly.


Armor: providing literally 0 bonus to any infantry what so ever other than a small aura bonus tanks give to infantry and what engineers get.

Infantry: now we get to a more decently balanced idea.

While yes you can achieve +1 bar and 2 GGS with no extra cost with the Top T4(operation overboard) other than providing a firepower boost to infantry (which you need to take another T3 unlock to get 2 ggs) its worthless.

the middle tier provides very nice healing and really awesome health boost to rifleman and rangers and provides rofl aesome sauch missiles.
But again now you are missing that offensive punch for infantry. in place for sturdier infantry and greater anti tank power.

the bottom tier: gives you something bars sorely need and that is a very nice moving accuracy bonus and some other rift raft. but again what you gain in being able to effectively move and deal some good damage at medium ranges you lose in the offensive power they once had.

_________________________

The point i was trying to make if you didnt want to read that or got confused. Is that you have the option a very strong option in all 3 of the axis doctrines to use infantry based companies.
 
I mean you got blitz(axis armor company) that gives really good buffs to infantry while the USA armor company doesnt get shit at all for their infantry.

or why does the USA LMG(inf doc) completely piss itself its a weapon that is rarely used even on airborne.

just mah fidy cent.

[chefarzt]

Armor gets zooks

[XIIcorps]

this is the problem i see.

is that you have 3 axis doctrines can buff their infantry pretty damn well one way or another. Example.

Blitz has a midtier4 which giving grens elite armor +1 grenade +1 medkit and sprint aura with 30s cooldown with no exhaust. while it doesnt buff their over all stats it does provide them with very strong abilities.

Terror: Gives auras hp buffs dps buffs through cooldown(i think) and being able to walk instead of crawl while suppressed.
basically this one allows infantry to dish some sort of damage back to its target and if it is indeed bars suppressing its really good.

Defensive: officer bullshit giving silly buffs while being part cyborg. can also give them reduced incoming accuracy aswell as buffing allies and tanks.

thats 3 doctrines with 3 pretty strong infantry lines if you wish it.
_______________________________________ _______________
Airborne: Airborne rifleman are wierd, mainly because they cost a few more in every category for a reason they get airborne armor by default and  can get stickies that explode instantly and or longer range grenades. This makes them highly effective. but it is also factored into the unit you are paying not only a Tier for those bonuses you are also paying 220MP 35 for a grenade and 65 for stickies. 

So if you dont actually pick that particular tier guess what. your pay 35 for regular grenades and 65 for stickies. while blitz gets no cost increase whatsoever to their grens who receive +1 medkit +1 grenade +1 faust.

Ok fine not a big deal. but then you got this T4 that makes you play aggressive with airborne no matter what. to actually get benefits from this tier 4 you need to be in enemy territory(wow wtf?)          At the end of the day though with all those buffs and in enemy territory with spare mags they will eat up volks instantly.


Armor: providing literally 0 bonus to any infantry what so ever other than a small aura bonus tanks give to infantry and what engineers get.

Infantry: now we get to a more decently balanced idea.

While yes you can achieve +1 bar and 2 GGS with no extra cost with the Top T4(operation overboard) other than providing a firepower boost to infantry (which you need to take another T3 unlock to get 2 ggs) its worthless.

the middle tier provides very nice healing and really awesome health boost to rifleman and rangers and provides rofl aesome sauch missiles.
But again now you are missing that offensive punch for infantry. in place for sturdier infantry and greater anti tank power.

the bottom tier: gives you something bars sorely need and that is a very nice moving accuracy bonus and some other rift raft. but again what you gain in being able to effectively move and deal some good damage at medium ranges you lose in the offensive power they once had.

_________________________

The point i was trying to make if you didnt want to read that or got confused. Is that you have the option a very strong option in all 3 of the axis doctrines to use infantry based companies.
 
I mean you got blitz(axis armor company) that gives really good buffs to infantry while the USA armor company doesnt get shit at all for their infantry.

or why does the USA LMG(inf doc) completely piss itself its a weapon that is rarely used even on airborne.

just mah fidy cent.

But your Comparing Grens and their respective buffs to rifles.
When its always been Volks=Rifles   and  Grens=Rangers   right ?

Volks get ok buffs with terror fanatacism MP44's or pert pills.


Rifles as weve stated are Jacks of all trades, masters of non.

[NightRain]

But your Comparing Grens and their respective buffs to rifles.
When its always been Volks=Rifles   and  Grens=Rangers   right ?

Volks get ok buffs with terror fanatacism MP44's or pert pills.


Rifles as weve stated are Jacks of all trades, masters of non.

This is pretty good comparison. People compare things to grens quite often and forget volksgrenadiers which are the most basic comparison. It is probably the grenades.

Rifles as a standard are jack of all trades. They can do any role but don't expect them to be great at it, thus they are cheap and come in waves.

[Smokaz]

A lot of the criticism about riflemen is tied to the unit's type and usage. People run ranger or marine companies, and when their forced to play with rifles they bring the mindset of those companies in their analysis of the rifle. Some people simply couldnt stomach using rifles, since they are aggressive-squishy-opportunity units.

Remember Lionels mindset? He spent like 2-3 years with zook rangers for his main at, claiming at guns were too fail. He also couldnt accept any conversion rate between rangers and rifles, the former were simply better and you were a fool to use rifles.

 When you get a vet 3 rifle with bars, you can treat them somewhat like a vet 2 gren squad. A bit better at fighting other inf but still not super good vs specialist clubbers like 4 man kch, fsj etc.

I see so many threads and posts lately that feed into the mindset "Well my p4 isn't a panther, so I can't use it."

When lesser units do greater jobs ingame, you are winning. Being strongarmed by a superior unit is part of life in EIRR.

How much of this is a problem with the unit and it's stats, and how much is a mindset not willing to adapt or play different than it's used to, thats all i'm asking.

[aeroblade56]

1. i compare do not normally compare volks to grens but i compare mainline infantry some people have about 4-6 volks in a company or less and the rest are grens. with rifleman i primarily fight grens not volks.

2. if we did compare volks to rifleman  again though we are seeing something in doctrines buffing them. either getting mp44 scopes with walk instead of crawl and Pervitin pills. Or again 3x faust with 3x medkits with sprint aura on 30s cooldown with assault however bad it may be.  Or defensive officers buffing them with grenades unlocked.

again though all 3 doctrines still buff Volks/grens fairly well in one way or another.

honestly no one takes volks except for recrews and cap. no one actually fights with volks or if they do they spam stugs and faust because stugs are super cheap and volks just faust atgs.

[ick312]

honestly no one takes volks except for recrews and cap. no one actually fights with volks or if they do they spam stugs and faust because stugs are super cheap and volks just faust atgs.

you got no clue what you are talkin about. Naked volks, are often used for fighting not only for crewing But most volks fight with MP40s or STG44s OR are Panzerfaust carriers

Volks are the axis riflemen, MP40 (for combat), Panzerfaust(AT), Slow mines (for preparing defense), Wire + Sandbags ( preparing defense). Volks are the jack of all trades, just like riflemen, they are slightly more vulnerable to sniperfire, but thats it.

honestly keep your closed

[aeroblade56]

you got no clue what you are talkin about. Naked volks, are often used for fighting not only for crewing But most volks fight with MP40s or STG44s OR are Panzerfaust carriers

Volks are the axis riflemen, MP40 (for combat), Panzerfaust(AT), Slow mines (for preparing defense), Wire + Sandbags ( preparing defense). Volks are the jack of all trades, just like riflemen, they are slightly more vulnerable to sniperfire, but thats it.

honestly keep your closed

typical Ick trying to get the last word in.

Anywho as i was saying i see far more grens than volks. i have a battle log of my last game and you can see just how much grens are used. i would upload it here if it didnt take the entire screen up.





15011111   1 Core
15011112   8 population
15011113   1x Grenadiers, 1x Officer
15011121   2 Core
15011122   10 population
15011123   2x Grenadiers
15011131   3 Core
15011132   10 population
15011133   2x Grenadiers
15011141   4 Core
15011142   8 population
15011143   1x Grenadiers, 1x Officer
15011151   5 Core
15011152   10 population
15011153   2x Grenadiers
15011161   6 Core
15011162   10 population
15011163   2x Grenadiers
15011171   7 Core
15011172   10 population
15011173   2x Grenadiers
15011181   8 Core
15011182   8 population
15011183   1x Officer, 1x Grenadiers
15011211   1 Assault
15011212   14 population
15011213   1x Panther
15011221   2 Assault
15011222   8 population
15011223   1x STuG
15011231   3 Assault
15011232   5 population
15011233   1x Pak 38
15011241   4 Assault
15011242   5 population
15011243   1x Grenadiers
15011251   5 Assault
15011252   14 population
15011253   1x Panther
15011261   6 Assault
15011262   10 population
15011263   2x Grenadiers
15011271   7 Assault
15011272   5 population
15011273   1x Pak 38
15011281   8 Assault
15011282   5 population
15011283   1x Grenadiers
15011311   1 Infanty
15011312   6 population
15011313   2x MotorCycle
15011321   2 Infanty
15011322   5 population
15011323   1x Grenadiers
15011331   3 Infanty
15011332   3 population
15011333   1x MotorCycle
15011351   5 Infanty
15011352   5 population
15011353   1x Grenadiers
15011361   6 Infanty
15011362   5 population
15011363   1x Grenadiers
15011371   7 Infanty
15011372   2 population
15011373   1x Pioneers
15012111   1 Core
15012112   24 population
15012113   2x Grenadiers, 1x Panther
15012121   2 Core
15012122   14 population
15012123   1x Panther
15012131   3 Core
15012132   3 population
15012133   1x MG42
15012141   4 Core
15012142   7 population
15012143   1x Axis Sniper
15012151   5 Core
15012152   3 population
15012153   1x MG42
15012161   6 Core
15012162   14 population
15012163   1x Panzer IV/V Command Tank
15012171   7 Core
15012172   3 population
15012173   1x MG42
15012181   8 Core
15012182   4 population
15012183   1x Axis Mortar
15012211   1 Assault
15012212   5 population
15012213   1x Pak 38
15012221   2 Assault
15012222   5 population
15012223   1x Pak 38
15012231   3 Assault
15012232   10 population
15012233   2x Grenadiers
15012241   4 Assault
15012242   10 population
15012243   2x Grenadiers
15012251   5 Assault
15012252   10 population
15012253   2x Grenadiers
15012261   6 Assault
15012262   10 population
15012263   2x Grenadiers
15012271   7 Assault
15012272   10 population
15012273   2x Grenadiers
15012281   8 Assault
15012282   10 population
15012283   2x Grenadiers
15012311   1 Infanty
15012312   8 population
15012313   1x Grenadiers, 1x MG42
15012321   2 Infanty
15012322   1 population
15012323   1x Pioneer Minesweeper

how many volks are actually in those companies.

this was a 2v2 on bergen.

[NightRain]

I havent been playing (for obvious reasons) thus you ain't seeing volksgrenadiers. Its the only infantry unit I use as axis because it does its job medicorely.

Just because rifles have to face grenadiers doesn't mean grenadiers are always the mainline infantry. Grenadiers are fancy in a sense. 4 men 80 HP per men and the second best rifle in game so yeah they're hard to take down.

[aeroblade56]

I havent been playing (for obvious reasons) thus you ain't seeing volksgrenadiers. Its the only infantry unit I use as axis because it does its job medicorely.

Just because rifles have to face grenadiers doesn't mean grenadiers are always the mainline infantry. Grenadiers are fancy in a sense. 4 men 80 HP per men and the second best rifle in game so yeah they're hard to take down.

ok if 1 person in the mod uses volks that is sad.

but no allies are forced time and time again to play with a unit equavalent to volks with minor buffs in some docs.

[NightRain]

ok if 1 person in the mod uses volks that is sad.

but no allies are forced time and time again to play with a unit equavalent to volks with minor buffs in some docs.

And? What is wrong about that? Even riflemen get minor buffs in every doctrine. If not a direct buff it is a weapon upgrade.

Imagine panzer elite, they got 80 hp volksgrenadiers. Not as squishy as 55 health volksgrenadiers.

Riflemen themselves are fine as they've been. Their excellence starts at close range. It is player's job to get it there. Hand grenades will turn most combat tides.

200 manpower 30 mun makes a solid platform of rifles. I ain't saying its easy to pull off but it is possible to do so. Even grenadiers will lose against that if they don't have any upgrades themselves. Medkit ain't enough in close quaters combat. But really, the true comparison is Rifles vs Volks.

[aeroblade56]

guna play some 3v3s with epic build of rifles and grenades and see how many volks i come up against.