Buffing Mand

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[CrazyWR]

For one id like to mandos receive buffs for fighting in neutral and enemy territory.

The whole idea of the doctrine is raiding and sabotage, yeh it ends up playing like RCA officer spam + Brens.

I kinda like this idea

[NightRain]

Holy fucking shit

did he just post all that argument and just say i don't know.

It means I wont know what its consequences would be as there were two options I came up with, instead you ignored it and decided to go squeal.

Also I've played commandos, with all weapons while most people cried them being crap, I was major support for getting them rifles in the first place and now they do.

The stens are ultimately crap as nikomas pointed out. I always preferred rifles over all. 6 rifles with mando Ltd and Red Devils + standard Ltd (buffs stack trololo) and the mandos became a pretty dangerous anti infantry platform. Though it was expensive popwise and once they start to lose men they become less and less effective. So it is pretty much babying them in the field which is sad. Without officer(s) they are pretty ineffective but not the shittiest unit due to access to handgrenades. Closing with them though is same like riflemen. They start losing men.

While I like the idea of boosting their abilities behind enemy lines I would rather see it in doctrines than in the base unit itself (as I've stated the Base unit itself is fine) its doctrines are crap. (Sten upgrade has been proved to be crap). If it was boosted to tommy level that weapon would be great.

[XIIcorps]

Where did you prove the base unit is fine nightreign ?

You were disproved about stens, and then you proceeded to state basic mandos are good if you take a Mlt+Lt and stack with a t4, hardly proving the unit as a base is anygood.

[Smokaz]

Grenade mandos arent going to do buttsniff to buff axis infantry. Have fun getting shredded.

Your strat is also based on a bug. LT and commando LT are not supposed to stack.

[jackmccrack]

Commandos are great in close combat, but the problem is they never get there.

Which is why I think they need more health or better armor.

[GrayWolf]

KIll these offtopic flies.
BTW rayze, how are u supposed to balance units without checking the stats... Jumbo has a better armor, but normal sherman gun. Yeah, tells me a lot.

How about buffing stens in this way :
Buff their damage by 0.5 and cooldown by 1.25.
Also give stens overheat ability : +3 rate of fire and + 0.75 burst duration, but -15% medium and long accuracy. Duration : 15 seconds. After that, they cannot shoot for 7.5 seconds. This would be good for quick attack on support weapons/whatever infantry in close, but after that, they have to move back or even use smoke (Which means, that they cannot use smoke when advancing to the target).

[jackmccrack]

I don't think Stens are the problem.

[GrayWolf]

I don't think Stens are the problem.

I don't think the need buff, but since they are qqing about it, I suggested a buff for them. Personally I think, that mandos are okay. Dunno, why they are comparing them to tommies, when they have different roles on the battlefield ;/ . Well, I think, that bottom t4 commandos are good, due to it's sight and officer buffs (mark target). I would also suggest using them with smoke, like paras.

[NightRain]

The fun thing is, they ain't any squishier than a tommy squad is. And with rifles you necessarily don't even have to get up close and personal with them. (unless you are running stens in which case getting close is mandatory) In same way failschrimjägers ain't any stronger as assault infantry when crossing open to get close or riflemen getting up close and personal. Very few unit can do it without getting injured in the process. Maybe it is a bug, none reported it though plus they do decently with red devils and mando ltd.

What I'd like to see is improved doctrines. Something with cloak would be pretty hilarious (or improved smoke pop, like lasts a long long time). Or ambush cloak like failschrimjägers. Bren weapon unlock and so on. Gives the squad additional tasks it could perform while being a one man stronger infantry squad.

Reason tommies are in comparison is basically because commandos are tommies with one extra man in the squad with capability to become assault infantry with stens and hand grenades. I prefer to run mandos with hand grenades, getting to enemy face is always the trickiest part of the equation.

In a summary it isn't the ideal 'run across field and kill shit' like some elite infantry squads are.

[jackmccrack]

Smoke grenades would be nice.

[XIIcorps]

The fun thing is, they ain't any squishier than a tommy squad is. And with rifles you necessarily don't even have to get up close and personal with them. (unless you are running stens in which case getting close is mandatory) In same way failschrimjägers ain't any stronger as assault infantry when crossing open to get close or riflemen getting up close and personal. Very few unit can do it without getting injured in the process. Maybe it is a bug, none reported it though plus they do decently with red devils and mando ltd.

What I'd like to see is improved doctrines. Something with cloak would be pretty hilarious (or improved smoke pop, like lasts a long long time). Or ambush cloak like failschrimjägers. Bren weapon unlock and so on. Gives the squad additional tasks it could perform while being a one man stronger infantry squad.

Reason tommies are in comparison is basically because commandos are tommies with one extra man in the squad with capability to become assault infantry with stens and hand grenades. I prefer to run mandos with hand grenades, getting to enemy face is always the trickiest part of the equation.

In a summary it isn't the ideal 'run across field and kill shit' like some elite infantry squads are.

IIRC FJ's, and all PE inf for that matter get Sprint. FJ's just get superawesomesauce sprint in their own territory.





Mandos are for all intents Glider dropped 6 man assault tommies with +5 hp.
Granted they get a get out of jail free smoke drop, at vet 1 mind you on something like a 360sec cooldown.

Sure they get pretty stens at an exorbinant cost, with more bark then bite.

Nades are nice, tho purely situational and not valid to build an entire coy around.

Then you have PIATs the only thing worth taking, becuase 6 man piats are more survivable then 4 mans, also gliderrrs.


Mandos as a unit need a neiche

[GrayWolf]

I find piat sappers better than mandos due to their camo ability.

[XIIcorps]

I find piat sappers better than mandos due to their camo ability.

Were not discussing Sappers.

[XIIcorps]

I'm starting to think, that Corps has 2 personalities. Do you really hate me so much, that you must off-top more than me?

You were the first one who compared tommies to mandos, but when I compare sth to mandos, you start to off-top. Come on. You're just like some politican.

Just check, who's always starting a fight.

Maybe, but they have this smoke pop, so idk if this would be like too much. But I join your HP buff wagon.

The context in which i spoke, was that if you take mandos PIATS are the only cost effective choice.

[GrayWolf]

Were not discussing Sappers.

The context in which i spoke, was that if you take mandos PIATS are the only cost effective choice.

WTF?! You cannot say sth is more cost effective by looking how many men are in the squad lol. Piats aren't supposed to be a mainline infantry, but ambush one (due to it's slow projectile). Ofc you can also use ground target, but most of the players are too lazy to do that . Like I said before, I would give to commandos more expensive RRs due to their better survability on the mainline. 150 ammo? Maybe zooks for 90 ammo? Maybe giving them gammon bombs (60 ammo, grenade like sticky) instead of piats would be okay?

[XIIcorps]

WTF?! You cannot say sth is more cost effective by looking how many men are in the squad lol. Piats aren't supposed to be a mainline infantry, but ambush one (due to it's slow projectile). Ofc you can also use ground target, but most of the players are too lazy to do that . Like I said before, I would give to commandos more expensive RRs due to their better survability on the mainline. 150 ammo? Maybe zooks for 90 ammo? Maybe giving them gammon bombs (60 ammo, grenade like sticky) instead of piats would be okay?

More cost effective as in if those 120mu take out 1 or 2 40+ Fuel Vechs they have earned their cost, Stens on the other hand would have to kill roughly 800Mp worth of units to earn their cost.

[nikomas]

Mandoes are about as survivable as rangers, nobody here is claiming garands rangers are something to worry about and garands are objectively better or that nilla rangers + grenades is some sort of very effective strat.

Not sure how mandoes work better, that glider deploy is a one trick pony and dropping it anywhere near enemy troops, with all the AT around, is just asking to lose said squads without getting to use them. Mandoes are okay if fighting basic inf but so so "meh" for the elite, assault infantry role.

[nikomas]

I want to remind you people by the way that commandos came with FREE stens in Vcoh, that's why they're so underwhelming. They came with FREE stens mid game and they were the most effective mid, not lategame. In eirr the said free vcoh weapon is priced at 140muni without any changes iirc, makes me lol when I think about it.

Before you compare to assault grens or kch that also came with free SMG's, it's not really comparable imho since you could also buy them on pzgrens and storms. They also have guns that are actually good (for a cheaper price).

[Smokaz]

What I want to see most of all is the Commando role more defined. The role should in humble bumblebee opinion, distruptive operations in the back field.

That means, they have to be able to fend off both infantry and tanks and shit in the background, or at least have some means where if they stack the odds in their favor, they can either evade axis or fight them.

Right now deploying vet 1+ commandos behind enemy lines mean that axis will send some nasty AI tank to rape them since they will have sight of the glider (usually) and they know that they are either facing piats or stens .  They get 1 long duration recharge smoke to help them escape or fight, and thats it.

Adding in a short duration sprint, giving them static cloak, making them invisible on minimap, maping glider cloak etc etc

There's plenty of stuff we could do for them. It's all about the dev team finding a vision for them and it being implemented.

[nikomas]

Mandoes are clearly combat infantry in stats and weapons, the weapons are pretty meh due to their Vcoh heritage but in Vcoh their ability was high. The Smoke-Pop ability is literally called "Suppression Break" in the RGD files if you want further convincing of their intent to assault and blow things up.

I just think they need need a bit of a weapon buff, "Sabotage" operations are not for 6 man combat troops.