Buffing Mand

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[aeroblade56]

Can we have a reduction on how bad the doctrine is?.

[XIIcorps]

While the MLT does provide amazing buffs, and  even at 3 pop with his 2 man entourage the MLT is a risky unit.
Should you loose the MLT leader the buffs disapear and your left with 2 pop of fuck all.

How many times can you do that before your out of supportive buff units maybe twice ?

That being said, Mandos much like the other 2 Brit doctrines feel sporadic in their respective ideas and choices.

[Hicks58]

They got improved lee enfields as standard rifles.

As a base unit, no they don't.

They are a six man Tommy squad with the ability to pop smoke.

[aeroblade56]

As a base unit, no they don't.

They are a six man Tommy squad with the ability to pop smoke.

till vet 1.

[Heartmann]

I agree, Mandos need a buff inf wise.

[XIIcorps]

when it's more viable to use bren tommies zsomethings gotta change.

[NightRain]

I wouldn't know. The doctrine is pretty crap tho but I can still see reason why tommies are chosen over Mandos. Here's a simple twitch. Mando officer only buffs commandos. Give doctrine unlock for commandos to acquire brens. Now more expensive tommy platform with six men buffed by superior officer and tommies suddenly starts to look less of a attractive option. or then the whole doctrine starts to look like shit.

[XIIcorps]

I wouldn't know. The doctrine is pretty crap tho but I can still see reason why tommies are chosen over Mandos. Here's a simple twitch. Mando officer only buffs commandos. Give doctrine unlock for commandos to acquire brens. Now more expensive tommy platform with six men buffed by superior officer and tommies suddenly starts to look less of a attractive option. or then the whole doctrine starts to look like shit.

Why brens tho ?
Why not make stens actually good, the same way thompsons are good.

Shit while we're on the topic MP40's and Stens could use a buff to tommygun status even with a MU increase.

[aeroblade56]

They got OP mando ltd for tier 2. They got improved lee enfields as standard rifles. They are fine and fun to use even if they are expensive to run purely and hate snipers and such. Aka as a base unit they are fine.

The doctrines are crap though.

I wouldn't know.

Holy fucking shit

did he just post all that argument and just say i don't know.

back on topic i think brens are silly idea.

if we learned anything about LMGS on elite infantry(or assault infantry) is that it doesnt work right.

LMG rangers(does anyone actually use them?
LMG airborne  i see some used but not to any real affect.
Elitegrens?, 80% of the time i see them with rifles than LMGS.

Also stens are fine they will chew up any grens or volks sitting on their hands. the problem is their Survive ability  , with a T4 allowing for smoke on a 120s cooldown and they have to get vet 1 for smoke it seems silly.

they also only have what a slight amount more hp than tomies?. 5 per man? with the same armor.

if anyone has actually tried commandos without a mando LT they are a pretty big disappointment.

[XIIcorps]

if anyone has actually tried commandos without a mando LT they are a pretty big disappointment.

I did, but not with any AI, just PIATS for chasing Tigers.


Is nightrain serious, arguing in balance about units he doesn't use on a game he doesn't play.

[XIIcorps]

U don't have to play with the unit ;-; . Play against it or check stats.

This is exactly the problem

Sometimes you face something your unprepared for, it rapes you and you cry NERF its OP even if the stats say otherwise.

Also what looks great on paper(alot of things do) dont actually perform in current meta or sometimes at all.


You should just exile yourself for awhile garry, until the stench of OMG has left the very fibre of your being.

[GrayWolf]

Still checking stats is the best option. If you don't know stats, you cannot even talk how to balance sth ;-;.
Second best option is to watch replay. You're not playing, so you're not gonna hate/like the unit so you should be 100%
impartial. If you wanna insult me with your hate towards OMG, make another thread and wait for a ban.

[Smokaz]

Mandos are fine - this thread is stupid

Keep posting like this and see where it gets you!

Xiicorps, Gary, keep your grudges out of the balance forum.

[nikomas]

Why don't you go check the stats instead of telling other to do so? Go check the wonderful stats of the Enfield that the commandos carry, go check the stats of the Sten while at it. Let me get this straight, the sten suuuuuuuucks and it has some of the most retarded modifiers in the game. The only reason you'll see sten mandos rip anything up is because there are 6 of them and they're probably fighting basic infantry with rifles (volks, grens).

How much does the sten, in fact, suck? Okay, we all know the MP40 is a fairly underwhelming weapon, it can do damage but it's not super impressive or anything... soooooo...

MP40 Vs. Sten (Any brackets are long, medium, short range. L/M/S.) Highlighted is the weapon that has the advantage.

Accuarcy = .1/.45/.75 Vs. .1/.2/.75
Damage = 5 - 5
Rate of Fire = 7 vs. 10
Burst Duration = 1.75s Vs. 1.5s [Average Seconds]
Cooldown = 1.75s Vs. 3.5s [Average Seconds]
Range = 30/15/5 Vs. 35/17/8*
Moving Modifiers = Even

Target Tables

Infantry Armor = 0.75 Damage for both
Airborne Armor = 0.75 Damage & acc against moving targets for both
Elite Armor      = 0.75 Damage & acc for both
Soldier Armor   = 1Acc/0.6dmg vs. 0.75acc/0.5dmg
Heroic armor   = 0.85acc/0.75dmg Vs. 0.8acc/0.6dmg

*Keep in mind the mid range bracket where the MP40 has a 45% chance of hitting at 15 while the Sten only has 20% at 17, it actually needs to get to 8 before being able to hit properly. Thus the MP40 actually has an effective range advantage since neither can hit (10% acc) at long range. I'm calling it even but personally I'd give the advantage to the MP40 due to the mid range accuracy.


There you have it, commando stens are in fact so bad that they are slightly worse than MP40's against infantry/elite/heroic and waaaaay worse against both soldier and heroic armored troops. You are paying 23munitions per weapon for weapons that are statistically worse than any other SMG in the game that is not carried by an engineer. When you buy assault grenadiers you're paying the same per weapon as the mandoes do.

Better yet when you buy greaseguns or MP40's, or any other SMG in the game you're getting either a better deal on price, weapon or both.



This is what happens when we pull out stats, it shows that anyone getting good use out of sten mandoes is pretty dandy with his micro. Oh yeah, remember that the Lee enfield is generally worse than riflemen garands, so unupgraded mandos are pretty junk to.

[Smokaz]

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=28262.0

I hope balance team can look at some of the suggestions in this thread

[GrayWolf]

It wasn't too hard. I'm actually surpirised that they are THAT bad after what I managed to get out of them (Then again it was the only company I had which had more losses than wins).

I think the main difference beetwen MP40s and Stens is the user. Commando vs volks ;-; . Even so they need buff, yeah...

[Smokaz]

I think the main difference beetwen MP40s and Stens is the user. Commando vs volks ;-; . Even so they need buff, yeah...

Nikomas posts a long descriptive stats post showing that this is not the case, and you have the gall to post something like this?

Consider this a warning, unless posting quality goes up in the balance forums, posters who continually pollute discussions with their brainless tripe will be banned from it.

[nikomas]

If he means that commandos are tougher, my answer is "So?"

Vanilla rangers with garands are tough, does not make them awesome or anything.
Panzergrenadiers with Pzgren rifles are tough, does not make them awesome either.

By that logic we could give assault grens or knights cross MP40's instead of 44's because they're tough, it'd be something like what commandoes are now.


Either way, doensn't make mandoes not suck, just means they get to suck a few moments more before dying.

[Shabtajus]

Either way, doensn't make mandoes not suck, just means they get to suck a few moments more before dying.

i am with nikomas on this poins. Its very frustrating get stens for mandos and die losing so much muni/mp. Its very situational to make stens work. Without sten or with stens its just a totally not worth to use mandos. Same goes for piats, ofc its cool to glider them and kill repairing tanks. But its also very situational.

So question is it worth get 2 x t1 unlocks for situational infantry which is very expensive?

[XIIcorps]

For one id like to mandos receive buffs for fighting in neutral and enemy territory.

The whole idea of the doctrine is raiding and sabotage, yeh it ends up playing like RCA officer spam + Brens.