P4 swarm

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[AmPM]

The battle is in the balance, and then like giant steel knights the p4's sweep aside all resistance (with the help of a little infantry and a nebel and stuka)


Battle 784

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[fldash]

Welcome to more AT infantry cost decreases!  Coming right up!

[AmPM]

haha, they were pretty short on AT at every point in time. They didn't bring it all out to annihilate our armor, and we played very well. Battle could have gone either way, they just were not aggressive enough.

Besides, they are all skirted, and 2 have MGs =) They are made for infantry killage. And it was a combined arms fight, isn't that the goal.

[fldash]

No, the goal is for a sniper to make a tough decision between taking out LMG Grens and Shrek Grens.  Now, it's hands down always the Shrek Grens.

[AmPM]

Its always gonna be the Shrek Grens =) Once you eliminate AT either way, its free time for Armor.

[fldash]

Not if we make AT cheaper, which we are doing...

[AmPM]

Yes it is, because as soon as the AT is gone, its free time. Just keep killing AT =)

[fldash]

heh, okay...   Why would you shoot the shrek grens if you didn't bring a tank to the battle?  Not having armor is only viable if you can afford lots of AT.  Welcome to the next balance patch.

[DasNoob]

If you want to take tanks out of the OP position they are in... reduce availability instead of lowering AT.  All you are doing is delaying the point in which the tanks come on the field.  Maybe.... heavy tanks SHOULD be as rare as they really were.

[AmPM]

Yea, so you just bring a ton of anti-infantry, a decent amount of AT, and some armor (have to do something with the fuel). Once its clear you can use the armor. Of course if AT gets too cheap the game gets slow and boring because nobody will use tanks, and tank vs tank fights are where all the fun micro is.

Either way, once the AT is dead, tanks are invulnerable.

[Thtb]

-yeah the massiv AT price reduction WILL hurt the gameplay in one some way´s.

[fldash]

DasNoob: That may be the solution...

The problem is that we don't want battles to always be about who can take out the other tanks AT.  That's very bad gameplay design.  The only way to do this is to significantly lower AT costs.

[AmPM]

If you want the game to just be about infantry, remove the tanks from the game entirely and stop pretending you want to give people the option. You can always just take them out.

Then again, infantry fights are boring as hell. Move forward, artillery, put up HMGs, move forward.

[fldash]

Yes, because there aren't any counters to mortars and HMGs.

We want it to be balanced, equally about tanks and infantry.  Right now, it's only about tanks.  You admitted so yourself.

Either that, or we make tanks so rare you get one every 5 days.  Then when you lose it, you can sit on the sidelines for 5 days and not play (extremely bad for gameplay as well).

[frsd]

Yes, because there aren't any counters to mortars and HMGs.

there arent any counters to hmg's? ever heard of something called fire-up?

[AmPM]

Right now the correct and timely application of tanks can break a line, the wrong application leads to a dead tank very fast. Whats wrong with that? I held off a few tank assaults on RtC earlier with just infantry.

Also, if AT gets so cheap, whats the point of units like the Puma, or M8, or Ostwind, or Flammenwerfer, or Croc, or any halftrack.

*Forgot the STuH 42

Getting rid of the different resource types would solve this problem as well, right now tanks are an easy choice because you can't use fuel for anything else. If it was all one resource you would have to decide between infantry, guns, tanks, and upgrades all on the same resource. Making AT much more prevalant in companies that didn't take armor.

[fldash]

What's the point of the Ostwind/Croc?  LOL.  They directly counter infantry (even infantry with AT unless there are absolute hordes of them).  In addition, they can easily flank AT guns.

Light vehicles will be less useful, but they'd also get a significant price decrease and have recon / scouting usefulness as well. 

We aren't looking to kill tanks or the use of them.  They are a good part of the gameplay.  However, you can't make the game ONLY about taking out the other teams tanks and AT.  It's absolutely awful gameplay.

[Compact Flash]

I think tanks should be rare but powerful units, capable of doing massive damage to the enemy, but also being a liabilty if used wrong.

I also think infantry only companies should be a competetive option.

[AmPM]

I killed a Croc with 3 Shreks with 1 man lost. Please tell me again how awesome they are vs massed AT.

[fldash]

CF: And are they currently?  No, because you can't field enough AT to make the viable.

Who said you had to use up all your fuel?  And yes, having only one resource would help (and is coming in 2.0).  However we are still playing this version (and trying to enjoy it) which means it's going to get constant updates.

And just for the record, since when have we ever left anything in the mod after it was completely decided to be bad for gameplay.  There have been things we've implemented and removed, and if we lower AT too much, we'll bring it back up to a medium point, if it's still too low, we'll raise it some more.