[US][WM]The Tiger and The Pershing

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[TheIcelandicManiac]

This is just to ramble on about The Tiger and Pershing HE and AP round system so if you dont want to see some random chatter and Personal experience.

The change with HE AP rounds on the tiger and pershing was quite the flop, Few players have ever been able to use them too their full extent and it being a costly unit its Cost effectiveness can vary from game to game, against a newer player The heavy tanks can cause quite the mess and can maybe from time to time make it look like its a beast on the battle field but against an experienced vet or a mediocre player the unit will never be more of a threat than the sherman or the P4 as they are both Cheaper and cost and cheaper in pop. Adding the unnecessary toggle between ammo has made the units more obnoxious than it has too be, made it more difficult to micro and overall made it a worse unit over all.
neither of them have helt a stable place in the current or recent metas as they have always been hard counterd by most AT like Paks with camo and ATGs with AP rounds, the Mass abuncance of Zooks, Zrecks and Ztickys, Fireflys Panthers M10s and so on and on, Fielding just one of the monsters Is tolling on the player that has it, granted the new repair system has made their survivability better but you still are removing the unit for the time it takes to just repair it half way.

Adding the toggle has made it a lot more micro intensive but the Speed decrees and the sight nerf has hurt it enough allready.

[aeroblade56]

:l

[TheIcelandicManiac]

?

[ItsDouggernaut]

Gotta be said I am never that scared of a tiger.... it's slow speed just means i can keep it back really easily with an ff or just piats and so i agree changes need to be made!

[GORKHALI]

I like the Tiger when Hicks made the changes, but it made the at guns useless as it can just roll over due to its speed even KT was fun to play and those explosive shells He rounds r also not so effective and don't do damage to light vehicles as well. kinda meh and takes forever to repair. give it a range sight is not important and mg burst on the front , should work like churchill fire coz at current state its worst then churchill coz churchill fire can diminish ur 2 storms with shrek units in seconds , thats why its hard to counter from front with inf but tiger is getting pop shot by rangers and airbornes like i don't give a shit coz it is SHIT.

[Tachibana]

wat.

[GrayWolf]

wat.

coz it is SHIT.

Long story short I think

[Shabtajus]

I have been using big tanks lately and my personal opinion where real problems begin is speed/accel/deccel. Back in the days you could run into atg and soak a shot and back to safety area. Atm since tanks became slower you are forced soak 1 more shot and even it leaves enough time for atg load up AP rounds. you dont have anymore speed advantage which let circle atg so it gets even harder to deal with them. Now it makes tanks a static unit without option rush in. You have to mortar/snipe/arty before engaging since you can not take a risk anymore. Basically you are forced to have some kind of indirect which eats your pop including heavy tank as well and this combinations leaves tank user very useless

 

[tank130]

.....I can't rush tanks......

Sounds like the design changes we implemented to force combined arms has been confirmed effective.

[Dauntless07]

I'm not saying you're entirely wrong, but complaining about Zooks, really? I get Shreks being capable of hurting them, but Zooks barely tickle heavy armor as long as you don't turn your ass to them.

Also, ATG already has a hard counter; the sniper.

Otherwise, tanks are not good on their own, I agree; they need support. I think we have so much AT because it's literally the only way to kill Tanks; like, having AI is not absolutely necessary to combat infantry; especially when some tanks that are supposed to be AT can simply rush in and crush entire squads far more efficiently.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Well honestly the point of this thread i just want AT AI round thing gone, the delay between fighting tanks and fighting infantry is makes the tank awful as if anything lighter than a bike comes into view it just bounces unless you wait to press the button and then need to wait for the reload and cooldown timer to reset, its just obnoxious.

[GrayWolf]

Allies have more than zook to properly fight heavy tanks and trust me here, allied AT is far better at fighting slow heavies than Axis AT.

ATG AP rounds, smoke RRs, Firefly, stickies
vs
Axis ATG (only one shot has a proper chance to pen), Shrecks (Cool, but Persh will hit you in the face), Marders (less mobile than firefly, lot easier to kill), Panther (shorter ranger than FF, but still good), not having stickies, 88 (actually good, but vunerable to arty)

Then again allies have better way at fighting counters to heavies like marder, panther etc, so that makes them better at fighting tanks than axis. Might be my personal opinion but it is how it is.

Persh/Tiger need change, but trust me here, Tiger is on the worse position here.

[TheVolskinator]

The Marder is more mobile than a Sherman, believe it or not. If you're in the "not" camp, check the rgds--they ain't biased.

If counters to AT didn't exist, in theory, yes, the Allies have the advantage. But since EiRR is not a vacuum, the Axis have the advantage in the net overall effect of their AT.

The Pak cloak is fantastic, since you rarely unload multiple shots into any given target, so 1-2 shots at a time is good enough, and you get those nifty ambush bonuses an unlimited number of times.

[Tachibana]

The Marder is more mobile than a Sherman, believe it or not. If you're in the "not" camp, check the rgds--they ain't biased

Thats an awfully disingenuous use of the rgd's.

[TheVolskinator]

It goes fasta (and it isn't even red).

[GrayWolf]

The Marder is more mobile than a Sherman, believe it or not. If you're in the "not" camp, check the rgds--they ain't biased.

Especially it's turn rate and lockdown ability makes it super mobile

[TheIcelandicManiac]

The Toggle is crap, Im just gonna put it like that.
The heavy tanks have lost all meaning in the battle field as the delay between fighting tanks and infantry, the speed and sight reduction on it has made it a massive peice of shit, i dont want to hear that someone just dosent know how to use it properly or how they are just too lazy to use it properly.
Its a nightmare to use not because the icons are switched up which is really simple and easy to figure out but how its allready a nightmare to use it in simple combat.
You have changed an Expensive Anti tank Anti infantry unit into a Soley anti infantry unit, Point me to a person that has gotten good use of it that has made it Actually pay itself off in any game that hasnt been a stomp and dont point at hicks because all the games i seen in stream of him playing with it was him just stomping or killing units that others had whittled down by others.

[GrayWolf]

Tiger went from 100 to 0 too freaking quick with this toggle just saying. On TA it worked well, because HE could fight tank and AP could still fight infantry and rape tanks. THe actual toggle is bad, bad, bad.

[tank130]

The one thing you have to keep in mind is Eirr will no longer have generalist units. By that we mean you can't have a unit that is good AT and good AI.

This of course posed a problem with what to do with Heavy tanks. Do we just make them good at AT or just good at AI

The toggle gives you the ability to do both, but it takes some micro and planning. I think the problem players may be facing is they are trying to switch back and forth quickly and make it an all purpose unit. If this is what you are trying to do it will most likely fail.

Try and look at it this way: If the unit was only good AI, then you would only use it that way. Try using it that way until you have exhausted it's use as AI. At that point pull it of the field like you would any other unit you are not using, or just simply toggle to AP and start hammering the armor that replaced the infantry you slaughtered.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Why Are you so fucking obsessed on making things so complicated?
Only thing you keep on insisting is to shit on units that others beat you with, nomatter what if you lose to something you will be crying wolf until something is done.
Its to the point that if someone is playing against you they are too fucking scared on using something too well as they know you are running straight the coders to nerf it.
I aint against the toggle entirely, i just want to to make it so it Aint complete fucking garbage like almost everything you insist on being put into place.

Just because you dont like something being used or dont like using it yourself dosent mean you have to make it a nightmare for others to use it.