[RCA] 1 bren 60 mun for sappers

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[EliteGren]

[aeroblade56]

Like most things elitegren you don't seem to look at things in a whole.

In RCA sappers get a 10% accuracy increase

Along with the increased incremental accuracy and the trench buffs your looking at  a cheap pop item that will allow you to free pop for bofors and a number of other items for rca to use.throw a captain into the mix and have a good time

[EliteGren]

Like most things elitegren you don't seem to look at things in a whole.

In RCA sappers get a 10% accuracy increase

Along with the increased incremental accuracy and the trench buffs your looking at  a cheap pop item that will allow you to free pop for bofors and a number of other items for rca to use.throw a captain into the mix and have a good time

a single bren sapper is never going to be as good as a 2x bren tommy squad, even with your laughable 10% buff. and thats fine, aslong the price reflects this, and it doesnt. not only are you going to be stuck with a compared to marginally more costly bren tommies sucky, less survivable anti-inf unit, you will also be screwing up your company economically by spending an outrageous amount of muni on half the bren guns you could have for almost the same pricing.

if you wanna free up 4 pop for a bofors you have to buy 4 of these, you save 60 muni, but lose 4 bren guns. suddenly that bofors doesnt seem that attractive anymore does it? this upgrade is not worth more than 35 mun

[Walkin]

Why buy 1 Zook on Riflemen for 55Mu, when you could have 2 Zooks on Rangers for 80Mu?

[EliteGren]

Why buy 1 Zook on Riflemen for 55Mu, when you could have 2 Zooks on Rangers for 80Mu?

stop assuming every US player is infantry

[skaffa]

Why buy 1 Zook on Riflemen for 55Mu, when you could have 2 Zooks on Rangers for 80Mu?

why buy zookedrangers... when they are shit. tbh

[aeroblade56]

Please submit some replays of the single bren doing bad so i can review them.

[Walkin]

stop assuming every US player is infantry

I'm not, I'm providing a point of comparison. Single Zooks on Rifles are more expensive (55Mu each) than double Zooks on Rangers (40Mu each). And yet, many players (even Infantry players, who have access to Rangers) still choose to take single Zooks. It's a similar situation, and I don't see anything inherently wrong with 1x Brens on Sappers.

I'll agree that 60Mu is a bit too expensive, but I think they should only be lowered slightly, 50Mu would sound about right.

[pandaExpress]

sappers are OP they are the only 4 pop AT unit in the game. i really think they should be 5 pop since every other AT source is 5 pop. Maybe a LAT Ht is on par but not really.

[EliteGren]

It's a similar situation, and I don't see anything inherently wrong with 1x Brens on Sappers.

I'll agree that 60Mu is a bit too expensive, but I think they should only be lowered slightly, 50Mu would sound about right.

Yeah there is nothing wrong with the upgrade. It's the price. I wouldn't be surprised if theres 0 replay submissions on this, no one is going to buy this shit with that price to make a real company because it gimps you. It looks even more insane when you compare it to other upgrades prices like 2x bren for 75 or lmg42 which is as good as two brens if not better, for just 70 mun, TEN munitions more than this upgrade that provides a single bren only, and it is non doctrinal. Assault Garands 15 mun.. it's way out of proportion

sappers are OP they are the only 4 pop AT unit in the game. i really think they should be 5 pop since every other AT source is 5 pop. Maybe a LAT Ht is on par but not really.

get outta here with this offtopic bull

[tank130]

It looks even more insane when you compare it to other upgrades prices like 2x bren for 75 or lmg42 which is as good as two brens if not better, for just 70 mun, TEN munitions more than this upgrade that provides a single bren only, and it is non doctrinal. Assault Garands 15 mun.. it's way out of proportion

Possibly a fair point. Looks like we need to raise the price on 2x bren or lmg

[jackmccrack]

Possibly a fair point. Looks like we need to raise the price on 2x bren or lmg

I don't think that's what EG is saying...

[tank130]

Hey Buddy, you know better than this shit..... are you fucking kidding me with this childish bullshit pics.
Enjoy your balance ban.

[GrayWolf]

New pricing is kinda...... Well, 45 munition for a single Fg42 (what's the point of it anyway?) vs 35 munition for leader rifles. I dunno who was setting the pricing, but it needs to be reworked.

40 munition max for a single Bren on not so good platform. Buffs aren't that big of a deal and shall not be considered when balancing that much, cause they have their own pricing now or at least should have.

[Tachibana]

I think you might be slightly overestimating leader rifles while underestimating an fg42.

[GrayWolf]

Look, FG42 is good on FJs, because they're better platform to begin with. To the very least you receive ambush bonus. When it comes to Pgrens, they're one of the bad-medicore platforms as for mainline infantry. What you're doing with that upgrade is exchanging leader rifle for FG-42. When you buy the leader rifle upgrade, you exchange 3 Karabines for 3 Leader rifles, having 4 of them in total. That is far far better than 1xFG-42, yet it costs 10 muni more.

45 munition is a lot for winning against rifleman in close combat (you can do the same with leader rifles upgrade too). If sth is underestimated it's the leader rifles. Can someone make DPS chart for both the upgrades?

I think that such an upgrades should be based purely on DPS charts, cause mainline infantry (like Pgrens, marines, rifles, tommies) does not have many abilities (like fireup) to begin with. Ofc, we have to look at auras too, but PE does not have many of them (if any)

[Tachibana]

When it comes to Pgrens, they're one of the bad-medicore platforms as for mainline infantry.

Its a grenadier squad. 80hp, inf armor, 4 man.

] What you're doing with that upgrade is exchanging leader rifle for FG-42. When you buy the leader rifle upgrade, you exchange 3 Karabines for 3 Leader rifles, having 4 of them in total. That is far far better than 1xFG-42, yet it costs 10 muni more.

The overall dps increase of the squad is fairly comparable (at close range i believe). However, each time you lose a body with leader rifles, you lose a portion of that dps upgrade. Lose 2-3 bodies on the fg42 squad, you still keep the entirety of your dps upgrade. That little bit extra DPS retention from attrition isnt a small deal. In addition, you have to consider the modifiers the FG42 has vs some armour types.

45 munition is a lot for winning against rifleman in close combat (you can do the same with leader rifles upgrade too). If sth is underestimated it's the leader rifles. Can someone make DPS chart for both the upgrades?

I'd assume you already know all the dps charts for these two weapons, since you seem to be making such concrete claims about the pricing.

I'm not saying you're wrong. Price changes are always something we will look at when needed. But, could you please stop posting as if you are writing with the knowledge of God by your side and actually put up something concrete? This is awfully similar to when you claimed AB mortars did more damage than any other mortar in the game.

Atleast EG provided valid points of comparison (1 bren is obviously not as good as 2 brens), and is only getting a vacation due to a picture. But you come in here, say something, then ask someone else to prove it for you.

[GrayWolf]

(1 bren is obviously not as good as 2 brens)

Well, who would have guessed that.

But you come in here, say something, then ask someone else to prove it for you.

There is a reason why, you're a dev and not me. You should be more oriented in terms of balance and you should provide any support in terms of it when there's a need for it. All people in balance threads should be oriented about it, but you're the one who should be above them, am I right?

Price changes are always something we will look at when needed. But, could you please stop posting as if you are writing with the knowledge of God by your side and actually put up something concrete? This is awfully similar to when you claimed AB mortars did more damage than any other mortar in the game.

Let's try not to offend each other in balance threads. If I remember correctly airborne mortar was getting a range and damage(1.2?) bonus from vet. It also was getting cooldown bonuses from vet too. With AB armor and fireup it was a real pain in the ass and vetting it up was pretty easy.

Its a grenadier squad. 80hp, inf armor, 4 man.

My bad, did not know they were changed that much, although they don't feel like grens for some reason (DPS maybe?) + they have different upgrades. They can come at the field with Shreck or LMG. That's a massive difference beetwen them.

However, each time you lose a body with leader rifles, you lose a portion of that dps upgrade. Lose 2-3 bodies on the fg42 squad, you still keep the entirety of your dps upgrade. That little bit extra DPS retention from attrition isnt a small deal. In addition, you have to consider the modifiers the FG42 has vs some armour types.

Trust me, it is a big deal. If you have to lose a half squad to actually perform worse than 10 muni higher upgrade, then I'll pass. Looking at this realisticly, most people retreat squads when they're one man while fighting (prevent losing the vet right?).

IN OVERALL

I'm not saying FG42 is bad compared to Leader rifles. It is the pricing that makes it simply not worth it. I'd suggest to make FG42 35 muni cost if they're comparable like you said before. Leader rifles would be better at full health making them good Alpha damage weapon at the start of the fight, and FG42 would more attrition oriented. I think that is a fair assumption.

Also, if someone would like to continue the talk, let's not derail this thread anymore. Here's the thread to talk about it : http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=29089.msg499175;topicseen#new

[GrayWolf]

Double post

[Smokaz]

have noted better performance vs rangers w / leader rifles. Fg42 is a useless rifle. On all plattforms.  vs all targets.  pay 20 Max, for one