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Author Topic: Small update for EIRR  (Read 912 times)
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Olazaika1 Offline
EIR Recruit
Posts: 35



« on: November 23, 2019, 08:42:25 am »

Balance/economy patch 8.0.0.8.5 by Unkn0wn and Olazaika

US
[Armor]
Willy Peter cost for Sherman Croc increased to 100 mp.
[Infantry]
Base of fire Quad upgrade cost increased to 60 MP
[Airborne]
Light cavalry Quad upgrade cost decreased to 60 MP
Spare Munitions cost brought down to 65 MU
Airborne .30 cal cost increased to 325 MP 55 MU
Aerial Supplies cost reduced to 75 MU

WEHRMACHT

[Terror]
Force Recon cost for Panther reduced to 100 MP
HEAT cost for JP4 reduced to 50 FU
Panzerjager Abteilung - JP4 heal cost reduced to 50 FU
Firestorm cost reduced to 75 MU, now able to purchase 2 uses.
Grille implemented to Terror, 380 MP, 200 FU
Modernized repairs changed to Infanteriebewaffnung - Grenadiers can purchase 4 MP40's for 50 MU

[Blitzkrieg]
Assault Tactics - 4x MP40's price changed to 50 MU, Removed from Grenadiers, only available to Stormtroopers.
Pervitin Pills cost reduced to 15 MU
Flammen HT - Upgrade from Around the Maginot flamer price changed from 40 FU to 40 MP.

[Defensive]
Artillery training for Flak 88- Upgrade cost changed to 100 MP
For the Fatherland price reduced to 60 MU
4x le. MG26(t) price reduced to 85 MU
Rocket Artillery price lowered to 90 MU

We'll attempt to do slight changes to the other factions tomorrow
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lol dats true get rekt



I like balanced companies

you can't just post a replay every single time I fuck up the opening
TheVolskinator Offline
Administrator / Lead Developer
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Posts: 3016



« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2019, 08:46:41 am »

That 4x long upgrade was changed to give 2x lmgs im pretty sure.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2019, 01:11:08 pm by TheVolskinator » Logged

Quote from: tank130
I want to ensure we have a 100% decision on the process before we do the wipe.
If not, then I wipe, then someone gets something they shouldn't, then it gets abused, then the shit hits the fan and then I ban shab.

PIE (Pertinent Info (for) EiR), incl. Zoomout Mod - updated 14 Apr. 2019

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Olazaika1 Offline
EIR Recruit
Posts: 35



« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2019, 08:53:27 am »

kings?
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TheVolskinator Offline
Administrator / Lead Developer
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Posts: 3016



« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2019, 01:11:17 pm »

lmgs. thank autocorrect.
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Mysthalin Offline
Tired King of Stats
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Posts: 9021


« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2019, 06:28:41 am »

Balance/economy patch 8.0.0.8.6

WM

Grenadiers - Cost reduced from 240 MP to 220 MP
KCH - Cost reduced from 290 MP 110 MU to 270MP 90 MU
4x STG stormtroopers - Cost reduced from 120 MU to 100 MU

CW

Tommies - Cost reduced from 250 MP to 230 MP

US

Rangers Full package - Cost Reduced from 200 MU to 180 MU
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Tachibana Offline
NotADev
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Posts: 1254


« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2019, 12:05:06 pm »

Quote
US

Rangers Full package - Cost Reduced from 200 MU to 180 MU

Mwhahahahahha
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It's like saying "i can understand his concerns that fire breathing dragons live in far away lands"
americans dont dodge wars.
Quote from: Trapfabricator
Literally, The only thing less likely than this is zombie hitler becoming prime minister of israel
Unkn0wn Offline
No longer retired
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Posts: 18315


« Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 07:51:01 am »

I priced Churchills at 210 F (from 190 F) and repair kits at 100 Mun until their pop issue is addressed. This should functionally give players one less Churchill to fight with and more of a Mun drain on their repair kits (in line with cost of repair kits on tanks with similar HP pools & armour values)

That being said, I honestly see no reason why churchills should cost 190 F even once we address pop cost. MP and doctrine upgrade costs are a different question. They're essentially somewhere between jumbos (300 F, 13 pop) and pershings (545 F, 16 pop) in terms of their ability to soak damage, be it with much shoddier DPS output (though still good enough in terms of AI).

« Last Edit: Yesterday at 09:19:19 am by Unkn0wn » Logged
Mysthalin Offline
Tired King of Stats
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Posts: 9021


« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 10:44:37 am »

They're flatly inferior to Jumbos and Pershings at soaking damage, not somewhere in-between.

Jumbos and Pershings have Pershing Armour and higher base health (Jumbos 811, Pershings 990) versus the Churchil's 700 HP and Churchil Armour.

How "good" is Churchil Armour? Quick table comparing some commonly-faced weapons:

Gun           Sherman   Churchil   Pershing
Pak           0.755        0.527        0.495
Shrek        0.877       0.529         0.458
Marder      0.614        0.58          0.321
Panzer 4    0.622        0.58         0.325
Panther     1.129        1.068         0.6
Tiger           1.000       0.8299       0.7

It does pretty well vs Paks and Shreks, granted - but the benefit over Sherman armour is marginal at best when facing anything vehicle-based. It's also one of the slowest tanks in the game at 3.75 speed and piss-poor acceleration.

The gun is flatly put - terrible. I know you're convinced it's an infantry killing machine - but it has less splash than a StuG (not joking, look it up).

I know that I'm retiring my churchill company for the time being. With a repair kit that costs 25% more than a Panther's per tank, and 210 FU a pop.. If I do play CW Armour it'll be with AVREs, Crocs or Cromwells - even I can't make the Mk 4 Alcoholic meme work as it stands.
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Unkn0wn Offline
No longer retired
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Posts: 18315


« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 11:54:03 am »

Well, I was factoring in the 200 extra HP from ablative armour, which puts them pretty much in between. You agree it does pretty well versus paks and shreks, which make up the mainstay of axis AT. That in itself is enough of a justification for them to not be 190 fuel. Essentially you're saying players should just bring a 400-500 Fuel, 16 pop heavy tank to counter a 190 fuel tank 10 pop tank on the British side. And then of course they need to keep their 2 panthers or tigers around long enough to be able to deal with 6 of those in total. The economics of that just dont add up.

I never said they are infantry killing machines, but they do a reliable enough job killing infantry and even penetrating LVs and medium tanks for the ridiculously low price point. You're being misleading in your claim that the gun is completely terrible.

You're also being very dramatic in your response to a 20 Mun price increase on a repair kit and a 20 fuel increase on churchills. I very much doubt your build will "no longer work" but of course you'd rather not put it to test than risk being proven wrong. I would much rather we start with a pop change as we can all agree 10 pop on them is completely broken but  until that's sorted I'm sure most will agree this a very reasoned stopgap measure.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:56:52 am by Unkn0wn » Logged
Mysthalin Offline
Tired King of Stats
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Posts: 9021


« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 06:26:16 pm »

The armour type matters a lot - Even with Ablative it wouldn't be somewhere in between, but perhaps somewhere just below, or significantly below Jumbos depending on the target. I don't agree that this, in itself, is justification for them to be more expensive fuel wise. They're tanky'ish, sure, but they don't offer much beyond that tankyness.

They do well against paks and shreks - but both paks and shreks can effectively out-maneouver the thing. Two paks, used well, that can cover each other are a near-enough insurmountable obstacle to 2 Mk4s. If even M4A1 "shitshow" shermans were used to fight that they could handily win, by contrast.

I don't think it's dramatic at all to say that 100 mu to repair a Mk4 Churchill is ridiculous when you pay 120 for a tiger or 80 for a panther. These are not good tanks. They can pot-shot infantry in a slow and ponderous manner - but when it happens it shouldn't be on the Church's grounds. Nobody other than me seems to use them to any real effect, and I feel like there's a reason for it - and that's just the sheerly terrible gun the vehicle fields. It requires allies to play well and trust the church in it's damage soak capacity, otherwise it's useless. Since you can't truthfully afford anything other than the churchills in the first place.
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Unkn0wn Offline
No longer retired
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Posts: 18315


« Reply #10 on: Today at 04:34:03 am »

Quote
The below graphs show how in the case of these supply disruption, other gas imports are brought in using existing infrastructure.

I used them against you and speedy yesterday, after the nerf and got 21k score, with a combined 60 or so kills on the 5 churchills. Not to mention the sheer amount of AT and armour that was lost by you guys in trying to combat them. So yeh, i do think you are being overly dramatic.

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