Elitism within EIR

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[AmPM]

I still like the term Elitist, its funny.

Anyway, its not about the new players other than when they see these arguements. I'll play with the new guys, talk them through setting up a company, etc. Who I am sick of playing with are the people that make no effort at all to be decent, they make the same mistake they made 5 minutes earlier charging the same HMG position with 2-3 rifle/volks/gren squads. DasNoob and Scrapking are prime examples of newer players that weren't so good when they started, but they have LEARNED to play the game. Some of the other people choose not to, and those are the ones I don't want to play with.

For some reason people still think its my job, or another players job, to make sure they get a game. Why should I have to "play" a game that will be frustrating, stressful and unenjoyable. I don't. Neither do the lower end players need to play against me. I'm not going to force them to, hell I really don't want to play against them, its not as much fun for them, its not as much fun for me.

I'd rather play a game not knowing if I will win or lose it because the challenge is what makes it worth doing. New players are always welcome, people that have been around for months and haven't figured out how to play are frustrating.

[Thtb]

Translation; "If they are not good enave to beat me and not tuff enave to suck up the beatings i give them they are just not strong enave for EiR *add insane laughter*"

[AmPM]

No, you'll notice I said they can still play, I just don't want to play with them.

Instead of trying for that 3v3 and forcing myself or someone else to play, you could drop out and let them play a 2v2 for instance. Basically I just see it as a bunch of mid range players trying to get the stronger players to play with weaker allies, all so they have a better chance to win.

[Skunker]

Commenting on someone's else grammar is always a poor way to try to deflect or win an arguement. =/

Although it was quite true, you must admit.

Now, I have played games with "less than desirable" teammates before, and here's the thing I've noticed: I have no fun when I must constantly feel that because my teammate cannot hold their own, I have lost the game. I have no problem playing with teams that are fair, such as last night (me, AMPM, Shoe vs. Salan, Theta, Akranadas). That was a good game, and we lost fair and square. I don't consider myself "the best player" or even amongst the best players of the mod, in fact I don't even consider myself amongst the top 10. I play the game to win though, because I enjoy the serious rush of an intense competition and the gratification of prevailing on top. You don't win EVERY game, and I don't say or think I will, but I'm not going to get myself into a mess that I am sure to lose.

[Ucross]

I consider you amoungst the top 10.

[Unkn0wn]

He's not really that good tbh, but the average skill standard is somewhat lower than that of say vCoH.

[Skunker]

He's not really that good tbh, but the average standard is a lot lower than that of say vCoH.

Neither are you .

I have a habit of doing some stupid things still, but far less than some folks do. Ucross kicks my ass every time, guaranteed.

[fldash]

Definitely agree with Unkn0wn.  The highest leveled EIR players don't even come close to the top-level vCOH players.  That said, EIR requires a certain set of skills that vCOH doesn't, such as building out a set list of units to take into game, devising them into platoons, etc...   Even the micro that's required in EIR is probably a bit higher than vCOH.

I consider Ucross only above average at EIR, quickly becoming the best, but he's a beast at vCOH, as is Forefall.  That just proves that EIR requires a slightly different skill set than vCOH.

As for myself, I'm near the bottom in skill but I'm near the top in 'theory' or knowing all the situations that a unit is best in performing (it's the execution of this that I'm horrible at), but that bit has come from being elbows deep in COH/OF code since shortly after it's release.

[Ucross]

'required' is a subjective term.   Due to the nature of vCoH if you mess up micro the significance is much larger than in EiR.  Thus, you would require more micro in vCoH IMO. =P  However, b/c you have more troops on the field more often it does make micro slightly more, but not as much as vCoH IMO. =)

[Unkn0wn]

Me and Duvka played on a pretty high level during the Automatch Beta btw though, playing against people like Savykin, Sweix, etc. and usually it was a pretty close game. (We even won against Sweix - Brag ) That's likely though because both me and duvka have played 1vs1 ranked automatch extensively.

The reason why I'm bringing this up though is because you'd be surprised about how "poor" some of the top player micro skills were that we've seen in some games. I rarely have a hard time stickying their tanks, etc.
(This was in 2vs2s obviously, usually 1vs1 ranked micro is of higher quality, all those players would definately kick my ass in 1vs1s.)

EiR is all about micro and tactics
vCoH is mainly about good macro, build order, tactics and micro.

Anyway, EiR is an excellent way to practice your micro, it's much more micro intensive than the average vCoH game because you don't have to worry about base-building, teching and the like .

[fldash]

That's a pretty good point, the recovery point of a micro mistake in EIR is less harsh than that of vCOH however MCP has made a micro mistake in EIR very costly late game.

[Draygon]

That's a pretty good point, the recovery point of a micro mistake in EIR is less harsh than that of vCOH however MCP has made a micro mistake in EIR very costly late game.

Which is why I dont like it, it is VERY unforgiving to new players to EIR.  I dont like it either but for other reasons. 

[Unkn0wn]

CAP CAP CAP!

[Apex]

Often a map problem though. Sectors need to be more layered.

[Lai]

I found vCOH to be mainly about not making mistakes

I found EiR to be mainly about planning ahead

These were my first impressions thinking about it.

[DerangedFerret]

Has anyone else realized how off topic this thread has become? We have almost a full page of off topic-ness!

[Bonte]

there is no offtopic cause this is in the general discussion section

[salan]

Definitely agree with Unkn0wn.  The highest leveled EIR players don't even come close to the top-level vCOH players.  That said, EIR requires a certain set of skills that vCOH doesn't, such as building out a set list of units to take into game, devising them into platoons, etc...   Even the micro that's required in EIR is probably a bit higher than vCOH.

I consider Ucross only above average at EIR, quickly becoming the best, but he's a beast at vCOH, as is Forefall.  That just proves that EIR requires a slightly different skill set than vCOH.

As for myself, I'm near the bottom in skill but I'm near the top in 'theory' or knowing all the situations that a unit is best in performing (it's the execution of this that I'm horrible at), but that bit has come from being elbows deep in COH/OF code since shortly after it's release.

its a tuff one to judge best in a pile of differing playstyles when it comes to EiR... But I have always believed that we learn to micro our vehicles BETTER in EIR then we would ever in VCoH because we can't just rebuild them here, and losing one alters the rest of the game vastly.  Of course VCoH is very unforgiving in a different manner, and I would be very surprised if we didn't have more and more top end players playing this then we think. (i stopped playing ranked after the first season and I was ranked in the top 40 at that point, now I just don't play the econ side and suck hard)

[Skunker]

CAP CAP CAP!

Well sometimes that's how you win, and sometimes it's how you lose. As APEX said, it's more of a map problem and less of a player skill problem.

[scrapking]

I'm with AMPM on this one.  I play with certain people mostly because I enjoy their companionship.  I avoid playing with certain people because I am outright annoyed at the experience of even communicating with them.  ( I have more than a few people muted because the sound of their voice combined with the drivel that comes out is not worth hearing).  I do not enjoy the company of children.   I would punch myself in the dick before spending time with some of you IRL, why should I treat my gaming experience any differently?  The effect on our chances of winning the game ranks a distant 3rd place to those factors.  I don't need to walk into a situation that I know is likely to aggrevate me.

As long as I am playing with someone I know I can communicate with, clearly, I don't care who my opponent is.  In terms of W/L, I've had the best and worst of it plenty of times.  I know that I am no bargain as a teammate either.

I don't play this game for any of your benefit.  I am not here to fill out your game, no matter how long you have been sitting there trying to make one.  I don't care if you play or not, its not my responsibility.   I am not here to be your friend, although on some level, some of you have become that.  I am not a dog who comes when called, and I am not computer AI, there for your convenience.

If being selective about the people with whom I choose (CHOOSE) to "e-hang" with makes me "elitest" then print my t-shirt, and send me my membership card.  If you don't like it, too bad, I am not asking for anyone's approval.  How I spend my time is my business, as is who I like, or dislike, and why.

And if my attitude doesn't fulfill your expectations of me as a player, well then I say get used to being disappointed.  Most people disappoint me by not fulfilling my expectations of them as human beings.