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Author Topic: Development Update...  (Read 18257 times)
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Thtb-Ally Offline
The German Guy on the Ally side?
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1812


« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2008, 10:06:55 am »

Yeah, but Roflmao posted a better screnny and stated that the connection to the db works.
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roflmao Offline
Professional Buttkicker.
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Posts: 1317


« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2008, 11:11:04 am »

Hmm, a hex-system is deff worth considering (I am a avalon hill war-boardgamer as well).
The current distribution of territories is just a prototype, there are a total of (almost) 50 territories, I am aiming for 100, but I first need to get the system working before I can start considering warmap balance/territory distribution, etc..

I was considering a alternate system though, cannot really talk about it right now though Tongue.
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Bonte Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1234


« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2008, 11:26:11 am »

100 territories seems small...i was thinking at least 300..each region... 10-20 hexs could have a specific map or number of maps assigned to them
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I'm too candid to hide something like that. Smiley
Candid - frank; outspoken; open and sincere: a candid critic

You must really think im an idoit.
Kolath Offline
Commander, 2nd Infantry Division
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Posts: 2382



« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2008, 11:55:26 am »

Or you could have a sector for each main town in northern france and maybe two sectors for a place like Caen.
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roflmao Offline
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« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2008, 12:19:36 pm »

300 is deff out of reach. What I (and most of the dev team as well I think) want to do is assign a specific map (done by the map team) to specific regions, as a example, make the beachhead of france always play mannerheims d-day"map, instead of any random map that players choose. If that system is to be implemented, there has to be some compromise regarding the number of sectors. To compensate for the limited amount of sectors, I have been coming up with a "territory/region" approach, where each sector has a certain amount of generic territories in them when a battle is fought a certain amount of generic territories are won depending on the map size, the faction with the mayority of territories within a sector "owns" that sector, and it turns red-or-blue depending on which faction and is added to the frontline, which means you can attack the next sector in-line. That way we could have 300 territories, even more than 300, while having a easy-to-manage non-chaotic warmap, which makes balance so much easier and opens the door to many features such as "sector-to-map linking".

That being said, I do need to expand the amount of sectors on the map, at least double it.
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salan
Guest
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2008, 12:21:18 pm »

they never said 1 win = 1 territory.. they could easily say that it takes 5 wins to take a territory, and each successful defense subtracts a win from the number..

easy way to multiply 100 sectors or even 50, into a much larger number of games
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roflmao Offline
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« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2008, 12:32:10 pm »

True, but having 300 sectors on the map certianly implies so Tongue.

Let me repost what I gave to the developers on the dev-forums, they all agree, and I am pretty sure you guys will as well : (exact post below)




I need to know if it is ok with the dev team to use a "Region/Territory " approach to the Warmap instead of a "sector" approach to it. Let me explain what each one means :

Region/Territory approach :
This is the way it is at the moment, a region is defined by a piece of a country, and regions are seperated with red lines (which also represent roads ^^).. If you mouse over a region in the current Warmap. The textboxes on the yellow area will change depending on the number of "territories" each region has..

Gameplay wise, Regions are affected by supply lines and what the not, while territories are just generic numbers within each region, which define who controls what.. Each time a battle is fought over a region, the side that wins gains a certain amount of territories within that region, depending on the size of the battle..
When a side(faction) has all(or a majority) territories within a region, that region becomes his and displays a certain color (blue = allies, red = axis). Which basically means that side has moved its frontline up a notch.


Sector approach :
Each "sector" (also seperated one from another by a red line) will just be a piece of land you can choose to battle over, once a battle is completed in that piece of land, that sector becomes yours.
_______________________________________ _______________________________
The sector approach implies 250 (approx) sectors on the warmap where battles take place.

The region approach implies a (much) smaller amount of regions on the warmap, with (generic) territories inside them.

Now while the region approach is a bit counter-intuitive and not near as cool, I strongly belive this is the approach we should use considering the current state of the mod. Let me point out the various problems we could encounter with a sector approach to the warmap :
_______________________________________ _______________________________________
1. Desolation  (company movment has been cancelled atm)
It is already very hard to get a game going with the launcher, it is the number 1 complaint people have with this amazing mod, once company movment is included in the warmap, using a sector approach would make it near impossible to get a game going.

Why?
Just imagine having your company in the middle of 250 sectors, considering there is about 2 players online at any given moment, imagine bunny hopping around the entire warmap, just hoping you will actually be lucky enough find an enemy player in the same sector you are, and hoping you will being able to get a battle going with him. The player could possibly feel like he is in a desolated world, with no one nearby to play against.. Which I personally loathe.

This is probably the biggest problem with a sector approach.

If we were to use the region/territory approach, this problem would go away entirely, finding a enemy player between 20 regions is so much eaiser and less complex than finding one between 250 sectors.

2. Lack of Maps :
I would love to have a individual map tied to each sector/region.. While the map team is doing a wonderful job at creating maps, creating a individual map for 250 sectors is a goal that they can only dream of.. But if we had various maps (depending on the size of the battle) for each region, the end result should be faster and cooler.

3. Download Size :
Using a region/territory approach would vastly reduce the number of maps, which would also vastly reduce the mod's download size.

4. My time Tongue :
Creating arrays with links for 250 sectors, and drawing the 250 sectors would be extremely time consuming. Time that I dont have atm unfourtenately. Instead if I could create links for about 40 regions (which I already have done).. I could get the initial version of this warmap out much faster.

5. Balance :
I am going to be releasing a map editor in the future, which allows dev users to make basic changes to the map that would affect balance. If we use a Territory apporach, releasing quick patches and balance changes would be ub3r-fast, as balance members could change a couple of territory numbers within regions and voala..

If we had a sector approach, being the only current warmapper, every time a balance member were to want a small tweak done to the map, they would have to ask me personally to do artwork changes and things like that.
_______________________________________ ________________________

If this mod really gets started and becomes a huge success, a sector approach will probably be necessary, but as I said, I think using a region approach is much better for the current situation. Even though it is not as cool ^.^ .


Please give me feedback, any objections are more than welcome as long as they are constructive, and you provide a alternative.
I really need to know if I can continue with the region approach as it involves different coding, I don't want to do something then have the dev team mad at me, and completely wasting my time.

I mainly posted this because Unkn0wn wanted to see more sectors in the warmap (which is a completely logical and rational thing to expect). Thanks Unk0wn for the feedback, and I want to know if you think this approach is acceptable.

Thanks - Roflmao.
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Apex Offline
Honoured Member
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Posts: 2971


« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2008, 12:50:39 pm »

You have to get away from the idea that players are stationed in a region/sector and then play against opponents in adjacent regions/sectors. This will only hinder the process of finding players.

It is better to have offensives launched once a week or so, with certain regions becoming battlefields. Every player can participate in every battlefield. A game of EiR then represents one battle over one specific region, and the results will determine who owns the sector at the end of the week.

This also also allows some kind of direction control by the factions generals.
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Setesh Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 100


« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2008, 01:24:40 pm »

How about thins:
To gain a terrotierie: 5 battels win / Defended

For exampel, Axis can attack a "mark" and win 4 times, but if defender mange to defend it 5 times they win. If Axis attack and win 5 times, and allies only def 4 win times. Axis wins.

Get it? Cheesy
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Compact Flash Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 757


« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2008, 01:26:19 pm »

You have to get away from the idea that players are stationed in a region/sector and then play against opponents in adjacent regions/sectors. This will only hinder the process of finding players.

It is better to have offensives launched once a week or so, with certain regions becoming battlefields. Every player can participate in every battlefield. A game of EiR then represents one battle over one specific region, and the results will determine who owns the sector at the end of the week.

This also also allows some kind of direction control by the factions generals.

Agree, I think this is the best option available. Do we really want to make it harder to find games?
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roflmao Offline
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« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2008, 02:17:48 pm »

Quote from: roflmao
1. Desolation  (company movment has been cancelled atm)

There is a reason I scratched that out, I was thinking of removing the point altogether but I didn't want to do a bunch of ninja-edits on my post. I guess I should have though.
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Serenissima Offline
EIR Regular
Posts: 4


« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2008, 11:11:44 am »

Um... about the map...

Could someone PLEASE have actually done their research properly and not used MODERN borders and territories on the map? It makes me wince and cry when I see the post-1989 unified Germany and all that on here, when the borders were very much different from what they are today... and I'm not even talking about WWII conquests. This is a glaringly obvious current modern map, when the borders are all horribly, horribly wrong.



This is definitery not the first post I would have liked to make, but... ugh! Get things right, please? ><
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fldash Offline
Founder
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Posts: 9755


« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2008, 11:15:05 am »

heh, sorry, as was already said, it was a prototype done quickly without much research time spent.  I assure you the actual map will have appropriate borders. 

Welcome to the mod.
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Serenissima Offline
EIR Regular
Posts: 4


« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2008, 11:17:49 am »

Thank you... it just made me sort of... metaphorically have my eyes bug out and hope that they didn't think the borders were the same!

For one thing, Poland's border was advanced 200 miles west into Germany in 1945 by the peace treaty, to compensate for the Soviet Union's border moving 200 miles or so into Polish territory... Austria was still part of Germany during WWII, Czechoslovakia had had most of the 'bulb' section assimilated into Germany itself, and many of the Low Countries were declared as part of Germany during the war itself (Luxembourgers were given German citizenship for example).
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Unkn0wn Offline
No longer retired
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Posts: 18377


« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2008, 11:20:43 am »

The only thing that needs adjusting really is the German border, the rest doesn't really matter that much since there won't be any sectors/combat happening there.. Smiley

Welcome btw!
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Apex Offline
Honoured Member
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Posts: 2971


« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2008, 11:20:52 am »

That was eastern prussia and austria, no american or british there anyway so not that big of a deal.

What bothers me though is that the autobahn network is used for the sector layot. This not very good, because big cities are now at the borders of many sectors, not in one definite sector which is strategically better, and also results in odd overall sector layout like the french coastline which ist just one big giant sector.
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Serenissima Offline
EIR Regular
Posts: 4


« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2008, 11:31:30 am »

It still matters for accuracy, since where fighting is in-game doesn't even come into where it is on the map anyway. It just seems lazy not to have the right borders.
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TheDeadlyShoe Offline
Weapon of Math Destruction
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1399


« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2008, 11:42:21 am »

Guysguysguys.  The sectors arn't laid out at all.
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salan
Guest
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2008, 11:59:36 am »

Guysguysguys.  The sectors arn't laid out at all.

its the only news they get to banter about unless its about balance changes, gotta expect it... atleast till we get some juice on 2.0 units and prices and how that all works!
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Apex Offline
Honoured Member
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Posts: 2971


« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2008, 12:33:56 pm »

ShoeShoeShoe. Trying to make it better.
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