Time for a historical discussion

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[snipes]

no germany had prototypes of the atom bomb just hitler chose not to produce it and ignored it basically, and there is always a way to get the resources needed

[Unkn0wn]

Needless to say, if the Me262 came into production in 1941 and was used in a second Battle for Britain, things would've likely not looked so good for the allies who literally stood NO chance against the aircraft.

No, they did, because we are now changing history and giving the Germans ME-262s, the British get Meteors and Vampires. I have also decided to allot the Japanese with a moving island that can refine hydrogen from the Pacific and give them aircraft that run on this hydrogen. The Americans get McDonalds to storm Europe and expect people to die of heart disease and grow fat as part of their grand war effort. It does not work though... D-day is launched against Rockall and somehow Montgomery ends up in Bermuda with Rommel challenging him to a game of dominoes.

"Time for a historical discussion"

 
The Me262 could've been in production in 1941, it was ready. Hitler however decided that it was not needed for the time being and determined that production should be shifted elsewhere.

No need to make 'clever' remarks like that.

This is an alternative history discussion on what could have happened based on the real historical situation the world was in, in 1941, if things went differently.

no germany had prototypes of the atom bomb just hitler chose not to produce it and ignored it basically, and there is always a way to get the resources needed

All wrong, don't pull facts out of your ass. German scientists were close to developping a nuclear bomb but by that time, 1944, they started lacking funds & resources to pull it off. The US beat them to it, largely thanks to Einstein & Belgian Uranium (from Congo). You really think Hitler wouldn't have wanted to use an Atomic bomb?

[snipes]

 You really think Hitler would've wanted to use an Atomic bomb?
[/quote]



HEll YES i woulda

[Flack]

You really think Hitler would've wanted to use an Atomic bomb?

You really think [insert stateleader] would have wanted to use an Atomic bomb?

Answer: Of course they would, if it gained whatever cause they are following.

[Unkn0wn]

I meant 'wouldn't have', obviously.

[dunny]

All wrong, don't pull facts out of your ass. German scientists were close to developping a nuclear bomb but by that time, 1944, they started lacking funds & resources to pull it off. The US beat them to it, largely thanks to Einstein & Belgian Uranium (from Congo). You really think Hitler would've wanted to use an Atomic bomb?

No, i'm afraid you are wrong.

http://www.cfo.doe.gov/me70/manhattan/rivals.htm

[Unkn0wn]

That website merely confirms what I said, be it that I slightly exaggerated how close they were to an actual nuke. It's estimated that at the stage they were at, it would've only taken them approx a few extra years to provide a working, nuclear weapon. (A few years that they fortunately did not have.)

Also, just because it's written by the government doesn't make it a complete reliable source.

...

[Smithy17]

Weren't they delayed abit by some special forces blowing up a heavy water factory in telemark or something?

[Bodybag2224-Armor]

Yeah that website just confirms what unkn0wn said.

[Unkn0wn]

Weren't they delayed abit by some special forces blowing up a heavy water factory in telemark or something?

There are several operations reported to have taken place by the allies in an attempt to delay German secret weapon production & research although the majority of those operations were held against V2 production facilities.

I visited a V2 production facility a few years back in France. La Coupole Museum, as it's called now today. It was very interesting. Definately worth a visit for the people interested!

[dunny]

No, it was impossible during the period that we are talking about. During the war, the allies always feared Germany's nuclear capabilities. After the surrender of Germany, allied scientist's inspected Germany's nuclear sites and determined that it could never have become a reality.

So how exactly am i pulling facts out of my ass?

[Unkn0wn]

Obviously you didn't get the part where I quoted snipes's post, not yours...

[Bodybag2224-Armor]

lol

[Armandillo]

Actually i read that newest theories on the matter, say that the germans were closer to the nuclear bomb like we were thought before.
They were makin intense progress during the end of the war.
Also there found evidence of possible testing associated with the project.
Im too bored to find out the sources and be more precise, maybe later.
But i dont know if someone heard of this.

[Thtb]

Yes. Then it woud have been even i guess now add "Enigma-Code" not Decoded and you have a axis win. For a limited time. After that it becomes star wars pretty much and sooner or later they get owned all over the place.
(In direct response to the first post)

[dunny]

Opps i guess i read your first post wrong.

All my comments are aimed at this:

German scientists were close to developping a nuclear bomb but by that time, 1944, they started lacking funds & resources to pull it off

They were never, at any point close to developing a working nuclear bomb. Throughout the entire war, Germany was purely in an extremely limited research phase.

[Unkn0wn]

I heard a simular thing Armandillo. More recent research & stories of scientists have indeed pointed out that the German nuclear research has been significantly underestimated by the americans. (One explanation for this is that the russians extracted a lot of German scientists & material, if not most at the end of the war, using their knowledge in hopes of developing a bomb themself. Obviously this wasn't shared with the Americans...)

[Prydain]

The Me262 could've been in production in 1941, it was ready. Hitler however decided that it was not needed for the time being and determined that production should be shifted elsewhere.

Hitler slowed German jet aircraft production, the MoD slowed British jet aircraft production. What is the difference?

The Gloster E.28/39 had a maiden flight in my 1941, the Me262 had a maiden flight something like two months later. The test flight Me262s had Jumo 210 engines, not jet engines. The first time the Me262 used jet engines was in mid 1942, the BMW 003 engines fitted where very poor and reliably unsound. The Jumo 004 engines came in late 1942 and where initially very poor too. The production Jumo 004 engines where not that much of an improvement, in fact their service life was so short, I dare say it cost 4 004s to keep an ME262 operational for a week. The Rolls-Royce Welland, the Meteor's engines where much more reliable.

The Meteor was better than the Me-262 in just about every regard, it worked, the Me-262 was unreliable and that late into the war, the supplys of specialist metals where low, the factories had been under constant bombardment and war production was needed in so many areas. Having a plane like the Me-262 would have pissed any Adjutant or Supply officer off.

[userstupidname]

WTF  nazism dosent mean it needs an ''military'' leader hitler even framed the military minister for being homosexuall to get overall control over army.

and in battle of britain it was agien hitler that pressed goring to attack london cause the raf made night runs agienst berlin.

goring was also a useless commander.

it was impossible (by nearly 80%) to stop allies on the beaches mostly cause defenders ran out of ammo. and the allied used the sea cannons to attack.

here agien hitler screwed up by standing to the hold every meter policy that was a huge part of losing many battles ore the reason many armies was encircled.

instead of reatreting back and forming up and the attacking.

and the most laughter in all that was someone said that the battle of north africa couldent be won i mena THAT yust hilarius of course it could but hitler dident bother much for it and dident send much reinforcements and supplys.

and the last thing mostly axis lost lately was hitlers demands to hold every meter, lack of oil and allies had airsuperiority

[userstupidname]

and  if germans was close to atom bomb ?? NO
specially himmler set all scientist on other projects

germany also lacked atomic scientist (i cant the english word for the special thing)

german wasent intressted of atomic bomb (and it wasent like hitler said 'no' to atom bomb....