Twofaced Arses

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[Wolster2]

Is it really necessary to put 'gg' after a match where you felt it necessary to jeep block tanks or chase engine damaged units back to the spawn, cause frankly actions such as these are hardly 'gg' events & falls much more into the category of childish/sadistic play.

Its a little like kicking a man while he is down, personnally I am getting sick of this type of play (whilst it may be in the rules & all), just dont expect me to be all friendly on vent to players (who typically are among the best technically in the community) who carnt let the poor bastards engine damaged vehicles retreat off the map now & then. And dont expect a friendly bit of banter post battle either for that matter.

And ofc im not talking about vehicles in the throws of battle here, no i am specifically targeting the griefers picking on obviously retreating units. I just expect better of some of the higher ranked players than these low tactics (is it seriously that enjoyable to beat an already smashed foe into the ground).

Perhaps its just the British sense of fair play coming out in me or im getting 2 old for this game dunno, but such games leave a bad taste in the air & usually ruin any level of fun for the rest of the night for me, ofc its not the end of the world or anything & the next day out comes the Vet 0 Panther in the hopes it'll make a spectacular end, but no always a gay death for the mighty beast.

[HaroquenX]

It comes down to what you feel was a 'good game'.

They might have felt it was a good game while you didn't. No one forces you to resiprocate 'gg', infact, you can return your general feelings if you disagree.

[Dbozwhite]

I am fine if you chase an Axis tank back to spawn.  They can repair a P4 from 5% to full in like, 5 mins with enough repair bunkers.  That, I can stand.  Jeep blocking is a bit too far though in my book.

[Falcon333]

I don't care if they destroy my retreating tank. They got it down in that critical state, so they can finish it for all I care.
I may even say I was lucky that last shot damaged my engine instead of killing the tank at that stage.

[Armandillo]

Honestly when i came here i thought the same.
Bike/jeep blockin looked cheap.
But after having my tanks time and time again been blocked, either my axis or allies account, I became indifferent to it. Its not that i do it, but i dont care anymore if it happens to me (because i sure expect it to happen) or my teamate in the game does it.
Vehicle blocking honestly seems like a general eir common thing to me.
Bad taste in air leave also other things, like people dont want to rehost/abandon a laggy game (first minues in game) and general things that have to do with a fair treatment to the people youre playing with.

Also theres a thin line between withdrawing a tank off-map and not to the nearest repair bunker.

I don't care if they destroy my retreating tank. They got it down in that critical state, so they can finish it for all I care.
I may even say I was lucky that last shot damaged my engine instead of killing the tank at that stage.

Yeah i agree, you should think if the tank has accomplished its mission for its cost and the time used.
Bottom line for me is everything dies. And im happy when my tank has a lot of kills to compensate for its destruction. Cost-effective all the way.

[Sach]

I don't know if its because I come from a fairly high ranked 1v1 background but at first I found it strange when people moaned about things like this. Anything that is an intended game mechanic is fair game as far as I am concerned. I think killing vet is poor and i don't do it. If I get a squad down to 1 man I usually switch target since I know my opponent probably wants to retreat it and just hasn't noticed.

As for jeep blocking, running over people and all that I do it and will probably continue to do it in any game i feel is going to be hard. If I am pretty sure I am going to win I don't bother doing it though.

[Thtb]

Standart of gameplay and friendlyness overtime in eir (In avarage)  ----
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[relentless707]

I can see what Wolster is saying because you're in a catch 22 if you have a severely damaged unit and want to get it off field but by announcing, ''Look im retreating it please dont kill it'' that can spur people on to do a Banzai charge for whatever reason [ I prefer the '' just being a prick and killing it for the sake of killing it reason '' ] So how do you come to an arrangement ? I've chased down peoples units when they have hunted mine but I've given other people slack at other times too in the sense of fair/good sportsmanship, because even though it might be a legitimate tactic it's still a bastard thing to do because we all do invest time and effort into strengthening our Armies.

So should we try making an arrangment before the game starts - ie if a Unit is severely fucked and the player on whichever team says Im getting it off field - let it go. And if no arrangement is made, then no quarter is given and anything is fair game ?

Thats just my take.

- Schwarzuhr

[UnLimiTeD6]

My respect to Sach.
If I see I vetted unit I'll gladly kill it.
Never recieved mercy myself, well, ok, I don't have vetted units.
@Schwarzuhr. If you sacrificed a squad or two to get that tiger down to 10 % health with engine damage, i wont let it retreat no matter what.
It makes my efforts worthless.

[relentless707]

I can see what you mean also Unlimited, fair point mate. I wasn't speaking specifically for my own Tigers though, I've gotten used to them being hunted and it turning into a game of cat and mouse lol

- Schwarzuhr

[salan]

I personally agree with unlimited.  If a tank is still on the field and the only way I can kill it is by blocking it with something while I bring another unit in line to get it, i'll do whatever to kill it I can.

It probably killed 1 or 2 of my units and I have no sympathy for someones attachment to their units nor their sense of fair play.

that'd be like asking someone not to arty my suppressed units , whats the difference?


of course I also would not rub it in your face.. I might say something about a different aspect of the game in which you kicked my ass, or a comment about how many of my vetted infantry your tiger took out before i got it... but ya.

[relentless707]

Again, can see what you are saying Salan and Unknown but in the past I've lost a lot of Vetted Tigers - few Vet 3's at that and I've still let people get Vet 2 [ maybe a couple of Vet 3's as well cant remember ] Shermans get off the field rather than chase it down, maybe I am an idiot for doing that but I can appreciate the amount of time/effort that has gone into vetting that unit up and its even harder for a Sherman to do that since they make easy prey for Axis Armour/Anti Armour, if the person puts it back into the fight after some Repairs then I'll make sure it gets taken down, since they won't be retreating it and are trying to maximise its damage - Kinda turning a blind eye until proven otherwise.

Again, thats just my take but its upto others what they do, Ill still cut people slack if they do it with me but if they want to chase my stuff down I'll return the favour also.

- Schwarzuhr

[Crono]

I play on the basis of giving no quarter, and usually no quarter is given to me.  Too many people already know my playstyle and also know I possess very little vet for that reason, but I dont lose.  I generally conduct myself in a very sportman like fashion, but if unfair play is brought upon me, then I do the same in return.

I rarely chase retreating units off field, and if I am doing that its to force the unit off field, not to vet hunt.  Schwarzuhr can attest to that one, and I enjoy competing with an opponent such as him.  

[Wolster2]

All im saying is I enjoy a Good Game & i dont enjoy a Gay Game, ofc u never no what your gonna get when u join a game.

Also im not really trying to whine (tho it may appear like that) just stating how little respect i have for players who feel the need to resort to this type of gaming & how i find it difficult to hold a conversation after the battle on Vent where typically they wish to point out how great they were in the last encounter & all im thinking is what a little cock they must be.

One last thing I will say on the subject however is how much respect I gained for MountainMan after one such encounter:-

I was predictibly getting slaughtered by airborne RRs during the match & as usual my Panther was looking worse for wear, all bunkers had been destroyed & i had no hope of repair, so it began the long (engine damaged as per usual crawl offmap) after probably 5min it was approaching the exit when my forward units noticed a pair of M10s breach through my front line straight down the spawn road (inwardly I thought well fuck that then may as well hit the self destruct except the M10s will beat it to it) promptly they arrived had a ping at my rear armour ( I survived somehow) & then immediatly drove off in the opposite direction & allowed my Panther to offmap.

On conclusion of the battle I queried Mountain on the subject he replied 'what would be the point of killing that Panther it was a good fight & was obviously leaving the battle' i replied 'thanks for letting it go mate, nice game'.

Needless to say I felt well I dont mind playing that guy again even if he is better than me & will probably own me, seems a decent guy.

[relentless707]

I play on the basis of giving no quarter, and usually no quarter is given to me.  Too many people already know my playstyle and also know I possess very little vet for that reason, but I dont lose.  I generally conduct myself in a very sportman like fashion, but if unfair play is brought upon me, then I do the same in return.

I rarely chase retreating units off field, and if I am doing that its to force the unit off field, not to vet hunt.  Schwarzuhr can attest to that one, and I enjoy competing with an opponent such as him.  

Same here too Crono, cheers mate - I know when I game with you there is no hunting tactics and theres a mutual respect in place.

I guess ultimately we all differ on what is '' right '' or '' fair '' but I guess in way it highlights the diversity in the community and, in a way we have a rough idea of who plays certain styles, ie hunters and others.

- Schwarzuhr

[salan]

wolster the problem is that there is a chance that panther wasn't going to leave the battle.  It was limping back, but on the axis side there almost always is a repair bunker either at the spawn or waiting to be built at the spawn.

any smart player will kill that tank or face it twice, or three times.

it is born out of necessity if anything, sadly.

I never get upset on anything my opponent does, the only thing that gets me heated is when my partner plays stupid

[Novox]

My respect to Sach.
If I see I vetted unit I'll gladly kill it.
Never recieved mercy myself, well, ok, I don't have vetted units.
@Schwarzuhr. If you sacrificed a squad or two to get that tiger down to 10 % health with engine damage, i wont let it retreat no matter what.
It makes my efforts worthless.

i also agree with this.
If you had no pity in removing my squads completly, why should i pity yours. right? If it was something that just drove on the field, got hit by like 6 RR's, and drove back, i dont think i would chase it, unless he decided to test his luck and remove some men from range.

I also believe gaining vet and removing vet is part of the game. Its all fun when you can stare at your vetted units all day in your Company screen, but i believe that its more fun gaining the vet. Once you reach the vet 3 stage. There isn't much to do with it other then run it on the field and massacre anything with lower vet of its own kind. The interest comes from Gaining the vet, not having it, and thats why i play the way i do. I'll throw anything down and waste about anything. Sure if I see a vet 3 riflemen with 1 man retreating, or Vet 3 Grens with 1 man retreating i wont chase, mostly due to lazyness, but if i see that unit still attacking me, ill target it.

I expect my opponent to do anything they can to win, and you should expect that too. In otherwords, if i see Assault nades, i expect them to abuse the glitch. If i see a jeep, i expect it to block. stuff like that.

If i play with a friend, i actually enjoy having the competition, where we try to remove all the vet, apart from the "favorite" unit.

Just for example, if i see shwarz fielding a vet 2 tiger, ill do anything i can to remove it, but if i see that vet 3 tiger, ill do my best to bring it low and allow it to get off field, but if i see it come back, expect it to die. I enjoy that competitive edge in game.

If you're too afraid of loosing that unit, dont field it or baby it even more. Ask me of my vet 3 P4. oh wait, no ones seen it cause i never field it lmao. You got to think about what your opponent can do, and if it is worth fielding that unit. for example, if i know i killed like 3 shermans and a couple m10's. I am fairly certain my vet 3 p4 can come out and remove the rr's or the bazookas without a threat of being chased down. If i am to be mistake. I can only blame myself, and not my opponent for destroying it. cause god knows, if that things on the field ill do my best to remove anything i can.

[NLeaf]

I was in the game he was referring to, and I got the kill for the panther (though bodybag probably did a bit more of the work than I did. Seriously now, I don't see how people can bitch about people killing their retreating units when first: it is vet 1, as I recall, maybe vet 0. Second, It was actually getting repaired by I repair bunker when I first started attacking it There is nothing to stop any near death unit on the field from coming back full health. Would you let a full 3 man squad of vet 3 KCH get away just because they are almost dead? No, you either kill them or force them to hit retreat, because they will be back at full health before the battle is over. With vehicles, since they have no retreat function, they are either off-map or repairable and easily sent back to the fight. Yes, it was fairly obvious that you were trying to get it off-map, but why is it such a crime to kill the unit that I had to sacrifice units to get close to death? And if the battle turned back in your favour, you can bet that panther would be getting repairs and fighting again. You used the very same panther to chase my Vet M8 to the edge of map, and it died. So when your panther retreats back through our AT guns, and tries to get off-map, we're not allowed to go kill it?

What I did was fine, man. I was killing a unit that I obviously had very, very little danger in killing. While its possible the panther could have taken on our 2 Pershings with a lot of 5% bugs, It was clear we weould kill it with no losses. But when someone goes out of their way to suicide units to kill vet (what you did with your panther), thats when the game because unsportsmanlike. Seriously, how can you expect me to let you suicide kill my vet and just get away when it would be so easy to kill it without risk? I 'm not mad at you, man, but I just think you need to calm down and realize what it was from my position. Honestly, I've never seen anyone get so pissed about losing a vet 1 unit. That's why both of us were saying GG's as normal after the game. Neither of us could imagine anyone getting so pissed about that.

[relentless707]

I can see what you mean Novox but on another foot - I risk my units as well, you know how much crap I've lost lol.

I guess all Im trying to suggest is sometimes its just nice to have that little courtesy/nice gesture which I try to do with people by letting them save something, not all the time because as you said it removes the point of gaining Veterancy and working toward it. But it is also nice sometimes to have something survive when you've just had seven shades of shit kicked out of your company.

What Leaf said makes sense too because the definition of '' Vet Hunting '' can be a bit ambiguous at best - If you charge some guys in to take down some vet 3 Rifles and he won't retreat, but then calls you a Vet hunter I guess that is the guys fault for not backing down. BUT - and I saw it happen in a 2v2 on RTC [ Its mentioned in another thread ] Andy had a Vet 2 Stug with a knackered Gun, destroyed Engine and the Allies had already lost, but they Banzai'd several Rangers just to kill it, even though MG's and my Tiger tore them apart and they retreated immediately after destroying the Stug - I was more annoyed than Andy was. That is what I'd call a shitty tactic just to spite someone but again - Horses for courses I guess...

- Schwarzuhr

Edit : Short version - Vet hunting, in my eyes is when you've already Won/Lost the game and start chasing down peoples units when the Countdown timer is going.

i.e. - You've lost the game, but you'll suicide units just to kill off some of the Winning teams units just out of mean spirit.

- Or -

You've won the game, the countdown timer has started they have to retreat, but you'll chase down the guys Armour/Support Weaponry just to rub salt in wounds.

Anyway, said my bit time for a Cuppa Tea.

[Novox]

I can see what you mean Novox but on another foot - I risk my units as well, you know how much crap I've lost lol.

I guess all Im trying to suggest is sometimes its just nice to have that little courtesy/nice gesture which I try to do with people by letting them save something, not all the time because as you said it removes the point of gaining Veterancy and working toward it. But it is also nice sometimes to have something survive when you've just had seven shades of shit kicked out of your company.

What Leaf said makes sense too because the definition of '' Vet Hunting '' can be a bit ambiguous at best - If you charge some guys in to take down some vet 3 Rifles and he won't retreat, but then calls you a Vet hunter I guess that is the guys fault for not backing down. BUT - and I saw it happen in a 2v2 on RTC [ Its mentioned in another thread ] Andy had a Vet 2 Stug with a knackered Gun, destroyed Engine and the Allies had already lost, but they Banzai'd several Rangers just to kill it, even though MG's and my Tiger tore them apart and they retreated immediately after destroying the Stug - I was more annoyed than Andy was. That is what I'd call a shitty tactic just to spite someone but again - Horses for courses I guess...

- Schwarzuhr

yeah that is a btch move and shows little respect towards the other team, but what can you do? Nothing other then kill his rangers, and maybe stay away from spawn next time xD


see, i've been making loads and loads of gimmick companies. Airborne company with no airborne... volks spam with stug spam... satchel spam... stuff like that, so maybe I just grew out of the whole "i needz my vet" stage, and stoped caring for it in general. I was never good at keeping GI vet in the first place. I find a greater thrill when i throw a beautiful satchel and take out a neble on the move and a couple grens, then getting a vet 3 airborne squad, but thats just me

The only time i really "vet hunt", as in chase down vet, is when i've lost a significant amount of vet due to something like squishing, or something. I have nothing against it, since it is part of the game, but due to it, so will hunting down retreating vetted units become part of the game . It seriously depends on the outcome of the game, and the only vet that truly matters in my opinion is vet 3. I throw any other vet out of the window, since who cares, but then again, im playing a defensive company on axis and that probably says why I stopped caring about vet